Get ready to embark on a journey into the future of entertainment and media as we delve into captivating insights with Leslie Shannon, the head of trend and innovation scouting at Nokia.
Guest: Leslie Shannon, Head of Trend and Innovation Scouting at Nokia [@nokia]
On Linkedin | https://www.linkedin.com/in/leslie-shannon-75856718/
On Twitter | https://twitter.com/lshannon45
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Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
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Episode Notes
Welcome back, everybody! In this episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with Leslie Shannon, the head of trend and innovation scouting at Nokia. Leslie will be participating in the panel "2024 the AI Inflection Point: Entertainment, Internet, and Media" at CES 2024 in Las Vegas. Listen to this conversation and get a glimpse into the future of entertainment and media.
The Evolution of CES: Beyond Gadgets and into Society:
CES has transformed over the years, no longer limited to showcasing gadgets and electronics. It has become a reflection of society itself. It now embraces the pulse of society by incorporating trends, market demands, and the evolving relationship between technology and society.
The AI Inflection Point Panel at CES:
A highly anticipated panel at CES 2024 is titled "2024 the AI Inflection Point." Leslie Shannon, alongside esteemed panelists Steve Canepa from IBM and Richard Ferris from NVIDIA, will explore the impact of generative AI on the entertainment industry. The panel seeks to highlight groundbreaking advancements and the future trajectory of AI within entertainment and media.
Generative AI: Empowering Creativity:
Generative AI represents a significant shift in how content is created in the entertainment industry. Leslie spoke passionately about how generative AI democratizes the creative process, allowing individuals to access advanced tools that were once only available to major studios. This democratization revolutionizes the creative landscape, enabling diverse voices to shape the future of media.
The Growing Role of Video Production:
Video production has become a fundamental language for the younger generation. Leslie emphasized how videos have seamlessly integrated into communication, spurring a wave of content creators across platforms like TikTok. The accessibility and democratization of video production tools empower creators to explore their creativity while raising the bar for production quality.
Embracing the Future of Entertainment and Media
The AI Inflection Point panel at CES 2024 with Leslie Shannon, Steve Canepa, and Richard Ferris promises to offer invaluable insights into the future of entertainment, internet, and media. This panel signifies a pivotal moment in understanding the transformative capabilities of AI in shaping the industry. The convergence of technology, connectivity, and society has ushered in a new era of possibilities, blurring the lines between traditional and independent creators.
Make sure to mark your calendars for January 8th, 2024, and join us at CES to witness the AI inflection point within the entertainment industry. The future is unfolding before our eyes, and the opportunities are boundless.
Stay tuned for more captivating conversations and insights as we continue to explore the intersection of technology and society. Remember to stay curious, embrace innovation, and together let's shape the future of entertainment and media.
Stay human! :)
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Resources
2024: The AI Inflection Point – Entertainment, Internet & Media: https://www.ces.tech/sessions-events/dhw/dhw01.aspx
Learn more about CES 2024: https://www.ces.tech/
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Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording, as errors may exist. At this time, we provide it “as it is,” and we hope it can be helpful for our audience.
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[00:00:00] Marco Ciappelli: Hello, everybody. Welcome back. This is Marco Ciappelli. We are going to talk again about CES coming up, uh, January 2024, where apparently we can foresee the future. I heard this from a few, a few people. Uh, it's not the DeLorean time machine, it's not the, the Doctor Who police, uh, station, uh, but it's something that it certainly has changed throughout the years.
It's not about The radio anymore, like it was at the beginning. It's not about the gadgets only or the new TV or the Walkman or the new phone is about really society as there is a track for absolutely everything. Uh, just yesterday I talked with the director of the thematics experience at CES and he told me how the magic happened, how they decide, I feel the pulse of society and where the market is going.
So, um, very excited for ITSP Magazine to cover this. It's definitely part of a Redefining Society podcast where we talk about technology and society. Talking about that, today we actually talk a little bit of the entertainment industry. And we're going to do that with Leslie Shannon, which is the head of trend and innovation scouting on Nokia, that, uh, she has a panel with IBM and NVIDIA.
So something interesting. The panel is called 2024, the AI inflection point. I said AI, so we need to drink. Uh, that's the, that's the podcast.
[00:01:36] Leslie Shannon: Oh, are those the rules? I don't know. It's just like, I
[00:01:39] Marco Ciappelli: can't have, I cannot have a podcast without talking about AI anymore. It's impossible. Who can? Anyway, entertainment, internet, and media.
Um, enough about me talking. You already heard Leslie laughing. That's a good start. Leslie, welcome to the show.
[00:01:56] Leslie Shannon: Thank you so much, Marco.
[00:01:58] Marco Ciappelli: Well, so let's start with who you are, your passion. I know you also, on top of working on this trend and innovation with Nokia, you also wrote books about Generation Z and the way they consume entertainment and so very passionate about that kind of stuff too.
And, uh, and how you. How excited are you about this panel?
[00:02:19] Leslie Shannon: Yep. I am so, so thrilled about this. This is actually part of the Digital Hollywood, um, uh, event, which takes place the day before the official CES kicks off. So it's Monday on January 8th at the ARIA. And, and it's a, it's kind of a little mini microcosm of all kinds of people who are involved in the, the media.
And where it's going from a technological point of view, and it's always so mind expanding. Um, I come from the technology industry. I usually hang out with technology people. I'm more likely to be with an IT person than a movie producer, but this is an opportunity where I get to hang out with movie producers and, and, and learn a lot.
Um, you mentioned the, the panelists. We've got, uh, uh, Steve Canepa from, um, Canapa, sorry, from IBM. Uh, he's the, uh, he's, these are both like really big cheeses and so I'm really excited about this. Steve has been working on AI with, uh, with, uh, IBM for a long, long time. Um, and Richard Ferris is, uh, the head of media and entertainment for NVIDIA.
Um, and he's also been in the movie industry for a long time, but Steve and I had a particularly good connection because, um, he was part of the team that worked on Watson, uh, back in the original days when it was trying to, you know, win on Jeopardy. And that was a huge development process. And the thing is that I actually.
Uh, was an undefeated, uh, champion on Jeopardy back in the 90s. And, yeah, and so a lot of my friends who were in the New York area, because that's where a lot of the work was done, who were Jeopardy champions, because you all get to know each other at a certain point, um, they, uh, they were invited up to, um, IBM's office in White Plains to actually To do testing against Watson.
So I had heard about the development of Watson from the Jeopardy player angle. Um, but I had not heard about it so much from the IBM angle. And so, so it's been just wonderful to like have conversations with Steve and kind of learn about the challenges that they were trying to solve and, and, you know, how they, how they managed to do it.
So.
[00:04:24] Marco Ciappelli: Wow, that's funny. I like that. A little, a little nugget of curiosity.
[00:04:29] Leslie Shannon: Yeah, exactly. And we're not going to be talking about Watson or Jeopardy at this panel. I just want to be clear of it.
[00:04:36] Marco Ciappelli: I'm flexible. I don't have, I don't have plans. So, so obviously. I live in LA, so somehow I'm connected to, to the industry and, uh, everybody heard the fact that for the past six months, we just got back into normal, uh, with the strike, with all the worries about AI in the industry, the, all the streaming model, I think stuff that people never even.
Uh, and by people, I mean the people that go to watch the movies, right? Or flip around Netflix and all the streaming media. We don't know what the model is there. But if there is one thing I think everybody's understanding is the fact that AI is part of that. I mean, the cat is out of the bag. We know that.
I knew that it was already out of the bag a long time ago, but now everybody knows. So AI has been working in the back end, maybe for more logistic things. But now we're talking about coming really in the spotlight in the way they do things. So, um, There is one thing in the description, very short description of what to expect from the panel is the fact that you, you guys compare the, the advent of the internet and now the generative AI, one took 20 years to get to 100 millions.
And this one in a few months, one year was one year anniversary, just a few days ago for OpenAI and CHAT GPT to go public. And we're talking about billions of people. So yeah, yeah. Uh, how's that going?
[00:06:13] Leslie Shannon: Well, of course, part of the reason it took the internet, you know, 20 years to reach, uh, a significant number of users was that the infrastructure was not in place.
And so a big part of that time in the development of the internet was literally the laying of the fiber and, you know, getting us beyond modems and so on and so forth. And so that was a huge infrastructure push that, you know, companies like Nokia are involved in. And, and while that work is still far from finished, um, when CHAT GPT came out, when OpenAI came out, um, it's everybody, as soon as you hear about it, you can access it instantly because the infrastructure is already there.
So that's a, that's a huge part of it. Um, but, but you're, you're not wrong to actually point out this, this, um, Uh, disparity, because here's the thing, at the beginning of the internet, even if, let's, you know, little parallel universe here, um, you hear about the internet, uh, one day in 1991, and it's, and it's already there, let's just imagine it's already there, would you go use it?
Eh, probably not because you wouldn't know what it's for. The difference with, uh, generative AI is that not only is the infrastructure there for people to actually try it, people are actually trying it. And that's a really significant thing. They're, they already have an idea, or maybe they don't have an idea, but they're curious about the possibility.
So they're willing to go out there and check it out for themselves and, and. You know, and that's part of the, it's, it's got this amazing appeal and people are, yeah, experimenting with it from the start. But I think one of the distinctions that we're going to make in the panel is there is a very serious distinction between consumer AI and machine learning.
So generative AI, uh, in all of its things and, and the stuff that's actually being used by enterprise, including the large Hollywood studios, because this, CGI has been around forever. Well, okay, not forever. Long enough, right? It's established. You make movies with it. It's no longer a huge shocking surprise to see a movie that has a lot of CGI in it.
Um, but it's the shift from having it be something super expensive behind closed doors at movie studios and now being democratized and being able to be accessed by And everybody is interested in that. So suddenly we've got people who are generating things that may have had an idea before but have no idea how to bring it to fruition.
Now we're starting to put the tools in their hands.
[00:08:49] Marco Ciappelli: I love what you said because it's kind of like a magic moment where to be at the right time, at the right place, with the right technology and how things happen. All of a sudden, it's kind of like the overnight success. It's not really a night. People work really hard to get there, right?
So I feel like it's the same thing when you talk about the infrastructure that is right there. So it's more accessible and the technology comes together to be able to offer something and the Internet. I mean, I remember those day that you almost needed an engineer degree to set up a dial up modem and then You know, I did.
I don't even want to remember that. Even if the noise is in my head right now. I'm hearing it too. But, but still now, I love that. That you're like, Oh, I heard about this. Let me get my smartphone.
[00:09:41] Leslie Shannon: Yeah. And this is not just a function of, yeah, the infrastructure is there. You know, as, as Nokia's head of, um, uh, trend and innovation scouting, my job is to look at new technologies as they come out.
So I look at, And I've been doing this for the last eight years. So I've been, I look at a lot of things and, and just two examples, for example, um, when, uh, I'm, I'm very heavily into AR VR metaverse kinds of things. And that's one of the books that I wrote. Um, and I, I really firmly believe in the power of consumer augmented reality through headsets that we're going to be seeing at the end of this decade.
And there's a lot of, you know, Work behind the scenes now getting that infrastructure layer down. So this is going to be really exciting. But when I, but even if I'm talking about virtual reality, which is out there and the headsets are affordable, if I'm talking to a bunch of executives at one of our customers, cause that's, that's what I've spent a lot of my time doing.
Um, most of them will never have had a VR experience. They will not have. put on a headset and done anything. Blockchain. I could be talking about blockchain, but it's really likely that the executives that I'm talking to have never minted an NFT or they had a crypto wallet. They have, they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've heard the words, you know, nod, nod, nod, but they haven't actually done it. With generative AI, completely different. I go in and I'm like, uh, yeah. And prompt crafting. And then suddenly everybody in the room was like, yeah, well, I tried this and I tried that and I found this works. Totally different. This is, this is a very, very hands on.
The democratization of this is, is the power. And, and so it's, we have just raised the minimum level for all kinds of things, for production of all kinds of media and other things to a really high level. And now anybody can get themselves and their ideas up to this really quite high level. Using these tools.
[00:11:33] Marco Ciappelli: Yep. No, it makes sense. And I, I definitely wanna invite you back and talk about your book and about all of this and, uh, and I wonder if you need help. Uh, I love to look at technology too. So , that's a good job.
I mean, I, I Free job to get in line thing. No, I know.
It's like, oh, I got paid to do this. I mean, it's, it's, I, I, I love, I love to invite people that, that have a hands on on things and see what's, what's going on and kind of foreseeing the future, but the future is here.
So that's, that's the point is accessible. Um, I got my mom on, on CHAT GPT. And so she's asking things to, to CHAT GPT. And it's amazing. She's 74, whatever she is. So it's incredible, right? Yeah. And, uh, so, but, but that's one generation. Then there is some other generation in between. Somebody jumped on the train.
Somebody was a little resistant as it's society. It's always like this with technology. There's the early adopter and not, but now we have a generation that. It's native. I mean, yes, they're born with a smartphone in their hand. And it's kind of like they don't know how to use a rotary phone. And that's kind of weird, but okay.
But I understand. I don't know how to use a gramophone. You know, maybe I'll figure it out. But the point is, so where are we standing now? I mean, what is the big shift, this inflection point that you're You're mentioning here in the entertainment industry, or if you want to widen the topic, feel free to do that, too.
[00:13:06] Leslie Shannon: Yeah, I think, um, well, I mean, I'll leave it to Steve and Richard to talk about, you know, when we're actually on the panel, you know, how they see it, because they're actually, yeah, yeah, they're the computer experts, right, and I'm, I'm more of the kind of, uh, social, uh, technology observer, yeah, and so, um, so some of the things that, For me, the generative AI moment is, is very similar to when I was in high school, um, many moons ago, uh, that was actually when pocket calculators first became affordable.
And, and there was a huge debate in my chemistry class, my physics class, and my calculus class about whether pocket calculators could be allowed. And then. Of those, uh, my chemistry teacher and my physics teacher allowed pocket calculators. My chemistry teacher actually required it. My calculus teacher outlawed it.
And across town, my friends in the other high school, their physics teacher wouldn't let them use the pocket calculator. And this is, and we're talking like the equivalent of a calculator on our phone, right? I mean, it just adds, subtracts, and divides. You know, my kids are in high school, and a TI 84 is required for everybody who's in any of those things.
So what happens is, at the beginning, the tools come in, and they're regarded as being suspect. Because, if you're letting these kids use these tools, they're not going to learn the underlying principles, and humanity is going to like, you know, just, it's the end of humanity. Well What we found was that if, in the pocket calculator example, the kids who learned how to use the pocket calculator were the ones who were in the end better positioned.
Because out in the real life, guess what? You use the tools. You use the things that you can do to take away the grunt work and to actually get yourself to an end product in the most efficient and best quality way possible. And if it's a tool that helps you do that, then absolutely. So part my, so I personally believe that education should be about training our populace to use the tools that are available.
So from that point of view and for, and so now we have these tools and we have the particularly weird moment of COVID. And the reason that I bring that up is that when everybody had to go home and be doing their schooling from home, a huge amount of work, school work, that might have been done in person or in some other format, got moved into digital media even more than it had been before.
And one of the best examples that I can give of this is my children's gym class. My, uh, uh, younger son was 8th grade when, uh, COVID hit. And, um, and so the way that they did the gym class was he had, they gave him a set of exercises they had to do, and they had to film themselves on their phones, doing those exercises, but then speed up the video so that the video itself only ran for like 20 seconds, and then send that to the gym teacher.
So yes, it's a gym class, but it's also a video production class. And so, so now we've got this whole generation, and this is internationally, this whole generation of kids for whom video production is, it's just part of work. And in fact, there's a really interesting, um, uh, there's a, there's a, um, uh, Uh, a market research company called Knit, K N I T, that focuses on Gen Z.
And what they do is they have, they send out the questionnaires, but they're not, like, online so much as, like, you have to type in your answers or anything like that. They ask, they, here's the questions, and then they ask the respondents to film a video of themselves answering the questions. Because that's the most natural way that Gen Z communicates with each other.
And then it uses AI to unpack that and then to find the answers and stuff and turn it back into text for, like, oldies like us who prefer to read things in text. And what this means, though, is that we actually have now, you know, an entire generation for whom video is the first language. Hmm. And, and when we, and, and production and creation of that and understanding, I mean, when I go to the movies with my kids, um, I went and I saw Maestro with my 18-year-old.
He came away and he was talking about the cinematography and the framing of the shots and, and the choices, um, of hiding faces in some of the, when I was 18, I Nev never would have thought of that because he's been doing video production since he was 13. He understands all this. So we're going to have, so this democratization moment of, so COVID created this, this world of young people who are into video production.
And of course, TikTok has really helped with that too, for rewarding people who do good stuff. And now generative AI is making it even easier to make magical, wonderful things. What this means long term for the entertainment industry. is really, you know, a huge question because that, that, you know, now everybody can be there on Pixar.
You know, I, I don't know.
[00:18:20] Marco Ciappelli: Don't tell Disney, but okay. Yes.
[00:18:25] Leslie Shannon: But one of the challenges for the original social media. was that they were not originally structured to help, uh, end users monetize. And, and, and so the kind of the slow shift to realizing like, Oh, we're just, you know, we're just letting people show videos or whatever. And then shifting to, Oh, these normal people could actually be earning money from this.
And we as a platform could be helping them. That would actually took a long time and some platforms were better at that than others. The, and, and, and. You know, so the Hollywood companies that realize, you know what, there's this whole world out there of the democratized stuff that maybe we should be aware of.
Maybe we should be including, uh, or, or I don't know. I don't know, but it's, it's, I think the, we're, we're, we are at some kind of a tipping point, um, that I think will actually really start to become visible quite strongly in 2024.
[00:19:17] Marco Ciappelli: I mean, I've had this conversation in regard to social media and and sociology of communication in general, like, When I used to study media, and that's back in the days, um, I'm dating myself too.
Also, you can look at my beard, but, I mean, there was still like the, the 15 minutes of fame and the world. Maybe you'll get on TV. The media was one direction. We, the user were. On one side, they were not interacting with it. And then with the social media, we started interacting with the medium and the company had to get feedback.
Brands has changed the way they interacted. And now you're right. We're at the point where even the, the entertainment could become somehow. interactive where you participate more in that because you have the knowledge and you have the tools to do it. So it's very, very interesting conversation this one, um, to have for sure.
[00:20:20] Leslie Shannon: Yeah. So, so it's not just going to be Um, you know, somebody creating a video clearly in their bedroom, you know, and like it's, it's, it's fun and it's lovely. It is, it's greatly spirited, but it's still quite amateur. Um, you know, we're going to be getting some extremely high quality, we already are, you know, very high quality productions out there, um, from people who are not part of the industry.
And, you know, so I don't, I don't know what it, means, frankly, when suddenly a kind of an equivalent would be, you know, if, if automobiles could suddenly be made by everybody, you know, what, what does that do to Detroit? Uh, if everybody can now build a car in their backyard and it, and it works really well.
Um, you know,
[00:21:07] Marco Ciappelli: And in a way, podcasting is the same thing. It is just the audio version. Although now it's also video of, of that, it's like everybody can get a, a chance at it. Some people are good, some people are not. You get the tool, I mean, you talk about the tool. You got cameras on your phone now that couldn't have on a, on a big fat camera.
That professional 20 years ago, the detail, the zooming, the panning and the cinematic of it. It's incredible. Um, So we're getting towards the end of this, although it's tough because I love to talk about this thing. So again, I'm going to have you back. Tell me a little bit more about being the head of trend and innovation, right?
So is it more tech or is it more society?
[00:22:02] Leslie Shannon: It's really both. Yeah, it's both. What
[00:22:05] Marco Ciappelli: is more though?
[00:22:07] Leslie Shannon: Well, okay. From, from, uh, um, uh, okay. So, so let me explain a little bit about Nokia because, you know, most people have heard of Nokia because we used to make mobile phones, but we haven't made mobile phones for 10 years.
I know they were really good phones, but we sold that business to Microsoft in 2013. And then there are still Nokia phones out there, but they're not made by us. They're made by another company who are licensing our name. So. So what we do now is, and we did back then too, I've been with the company for 23 years and I've been on the network side the whole time.
We actually create the hardware and the software that runs telecommunications networks. And we sell that to the phone companies of the world and large enterprises that need to have their own networks. So, so for me, my, um, my role as, uh, Trend and innovation scout. It is actually deeply informed by the fact that I worked at Nokia networks.
I was actually in headquarters in Finland when the handset business blew up, you know, and withered away in like, you know, a really short time. It was like four years. And, um, uh, and part of the reason that it happened was that they were not looking outside themselves. They got to a certain point and they're like, we are so fabulous.
We don't need to listen to anybody else. We're just going to do what we want and that's going to make the market. And, and that didn't really work out for them very well. And part of the reason that they didn't take Apple seriously was that Apple did not come from the telco world. They came from the tele, from the computing world.
They were a computer maker. And so, well, they don't know anything about phones and their first phone. The first iPhone, terrible telephone, terrible telephone, bad antenna, you know, all kinds of, you know, it was from a telco point of view. You know, Nokia's saying this is no threat to us. Well, if, and so that's, if you look at the technology part only, you will look at the iPhone and you'll go, Oh, that's no threat.
But if you look at the social side too, you're like, Oh, you know what? At Nokia, we never really cracked doing email easily on your phones. You know, you'd have to know you're like, Um, I don't know your IP address and all kinds of pop server and all that kind of stuff. And, and so it's like, Oh, they look, they've got email on there really easily.
And look, Oh, this app thing. Now that's much better than what we've got. And now you're like, well, this might be a threat. So you have to look at it together. You have to look at it. Not only what is the technology that's creating here? What problem person, what human problem is it solving? And what's the cost of that solution?
Because if the cost is too high, it's not going to take off. But if it's. If it's solving a problem well enough, and the cost can be in time or fiddliness or whatever. If it's solving the problem well, better than before, and it's at a lower cost than whatever the previous solution was, now you're onto something.
And so, so that's the kind of stuff that I look for. And specifically things involving connectivity, because those are the things that we need to be building the networks for, and we need to be able to see that stuff coming a long way out to make sure that we build the networks in time.
[00:25:03] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, it makes total sense.
And there is plenty of example in technology for consumers that not necessarily the best technology was the one that was adopted. Largely, uh, beta and VHS comes to mind and and sometimes it's You need to look at what is, how it's going to use, how it's going to be used too,
[00:25:25] Leslie Shannon: right? A hundred percent. And you know, in that specific example, you know, we, that was a, that's a, it's one that's used a lot, but there's a reason it's used a lot.
It's because Sony was so focused on quality for the beta tapes that they had their videotapes, the maximum length of the one hour. And what they missed was that what people wanted to do. What they could do with videotaping was to tape movies off of the TV. And a one hour tape is not long enough. And so VHS, with the lower quality, they had a two hour long tape.
And that's what the people did because that solved the problem.
[00:25:56] Marco Ciappelli: Exactly. You really need to understand both. You need to understand the technology and what is possible. And you need to understand what people, what they really want to do with it. Exactly, exactly. Well, listen, Leslie, I don't want to take any more of your time, uh, but I will want to have you back and talk more about this thing, because as you can tell, I got really, really into it.
But let's do a little recap. I'm going to do it for you. So there is, uh, uh, the panel is going to be during CES 2024 in Las Vegas, which will take place Uh the 9th to the 12th, but your panel actually is going to be Monday, January the 8th, 9 to 9 40 and it's called 2024 the AI Inflection point entertainment internet and media at the area level one Joshua Nein.
You don't have to remember this. We're going to put the link to CES's website and everybody can check it out. Um, uh, it, it's been a pleasure. I had a lot of fun. Great conversation, Leslie, thank you for coming and stopping by and good luck with, uh, with CES and your, uh, your panel.
[00:27:04] Leslie Shannon: Margo, thank you so much.
This has really been a pleasure. And I mean, so yeah, we're Monday, 9:00 AM we're kicking the whole thing off, you know, but don't, don't come see me. Come to see Steve and Richard because these guys, these guys know it all. .
[00:27:19] Marco Ciappelli: If you wanna know the future,
[00:27:20] Leslie Shannon: there is ceo. These are the guys who are gonna be able to tell us that
[00:27:22] Marco Ciappelli: is the panel that is gonna tell you the future.
All right? Cool. And for people that are interested in this conversation, just subscribe to my channel. Connect with me on social media or with Leslie, and uh, I'm sure you can get in touch with her. Yep. And, uh, that's it. Stay tuned. And, uh, and I know, stay human. I don't know, lately I'm, I'd have
[00:27:42] Leslie Shannon: to say this.
That's a great sign off a, a little bit. Uh, stay human and prosper. Yes. . . That's yeah. .
[00:27:51] Marco Ciappelli: Alright. Bye everybody.