Redefining Society and Technology Podcast

Redefining Existence: Will We Be Carbon, Silicon, Digital Entities, Or A Little Bit Everything? | A Carbon, a Silicon, and a Cell walk into a bar... | A Redefining Society Podcast Series With Recurring Guest Dr. Bruce Y. Lee and Host Marco Ciappelli

Episode Summary

Bruce and Marco ponder how technology can help us redefine our existence, highlighting how advancements can blur the lines between reality and the digital world.

Episode Notes

Guest: Dr. Bruce Y Lee, Executive Director of PHICOR (Public Health Informatics, Computational, and Operations Research) [@PHICORteam]

On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/bruce-y-lee-68a6834/

On Twitter | https://twitter.com/bruce_y_lee

Website | https://www.bruceylee.com/

On Forbes | https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/

On Psychology Today | https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/contributors/bruce-y-lee-md-mba

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Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast

On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
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Episode Introduction

In this episode of the Redefining Society podcast, hosts Marco Ciappelli and Bruce Y Lee consider the future implications of cutting-edge technologies, asking whether we will soon identify as silicon, carbon, cells, or even digital entities.

They ponder how technology can help us redefine our existence, highlighting how advancements can blur the lines between reality and the digital world. For instance, the potential of marrying Artificial Intelligence, as already observed in some parts of the world, is discussed.

The discourse then shifts to the future of agriculture and farming technologies. They express concerns over the depletion of fertile lands and the increase in food allergies worldwide, but find hope in the potential of technology to address these challenges. Bruce discusses a workshop event he is part of that will bring experts together to discuss the future of agriculture technologies.

The show concludes with Bruce discussing a science communications event where he will be having a Q&A with Dr. Francis Collins, former director of the National Institutes of Health, about making science more interesting and accessible. He emphasizes the need for science to be taught in a more engaging way, much like storytelling, to ignite curiosity and passion.

Stay tuned for more episode of this podcast and the monthly series with Bruce and Marco called A carbon, a Silicon, and a Cell walk into a Bar…

Subscribe, share, and stay curious.

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Resources

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Episode Transcription

Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording, as errors may exist. At this time, we provide it “as it is,” and we hope it can be helpful for our audience.

[00:00:00] Marco Ciappelli: Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Redefining Society podcast. In particular, the one where we wonder if we are silicon, carbon, or cell. I don't know. Can we actually ask that question, Bruce?  
 

[00:00:20] Bruce Y Lee: Yeah, well, one of these days, that's probably going to be the first question you ask people, right? 
 

What are you? You meet on a date or you're a job interview. So I just want to clarify, are you silicon or are you made of cells? Or carbon based or some combination of those someday  
 

[00:00:35] Marco Ciappelli: or or we should include in the future you're completely digital like a digital twin an avatar. An hologram, which doesn't make you, I guess, nor silicon, nor carbon, nor a cell. 
 

[00:00:49] Bruce Y Lee: Yeah, he can say, this is my significant other. He or she is completely digital, but, you know.  
 

[00:00:56] Marco Ciappelli: Aren't people marrying already? Um, I think I heard in South Korea or Japan, they're marrying their virtual assistant, uh, artificial intelligence. I don't know if it's legal or not, or how you open a bank account with that, but, uh, I heard it's crossing the line there. 
 

[00:01:14] Bruce Y Lee: Well, you know, technology, so,  
 

[00:01:17] Marco Ciappelli: yep, technology, a lot of fun. There was that movie, uh, horror, I think we mentioned a few times before where the, the protagonist, uh, fall in love with an AI. And  
 

[00:01:30] Bruce Y Lee: so I've, I've actually also written for Forbes about some of this stuff. So there's this, um, uh, what is a, uh, there's an annual sex robot, um, convention where they. 
 

Talk about those things and you know, how people are kind of building more and more realistic robots. Um, and so you can use your imagination on how those things may be used. Uh, but they're becoming more and more realistic. Um, and there's a whole community that has these conventions where they talk about the different, uh, developments and, um, you know, technologies there. 
 

Uh, so things are changing  
 

[00:02:15] Marco Ciappelli: on the other hand. I read article where social life. It's one of the secret for longevity and happy life. So, I don't know. Does robot and AI qualify of social life or is it actually making us even more and more lonely? Um, or pretending to be in a relationship where you, I guess you're always right. 
 

I, I've tried to argue with the CHAT GPT, but always tell me, I'm sorry, Marco. Yeah, I, I didn't, I didn't think about that. Or I made a mistake, and I'm like, come on, just go for it.  
 

[00:02:54] Bruce Y Lee: So you're winning the arguments with CHAT GPT, that's good.  
 

[00:02:56] Marco Ciappelli: Well, you know, when I ask three times the same thing and I don't get a good result, I get a little, I get a little Italian on that, right? 
 

I'm like, come on,  
 

[00:03:05] Bruce Y Lee: are you listening to me? You'll bring it up things in the past, like in a regular argument with, with people, you know, how in a regular argument with people, you'll say, well, three years ago, you did such and such, you can do that with CHAT GPT. Well, three days ago, you Said such and such. Do you still feel that way? 
 

[00:03:21] Marco Ciappelli: Well, I guess you need an artificial intelligence assistant that actually keep tracks because in CHAT GPT, when you start a new conversation, it doesn't connect with the one before. You need to keep that one going, but I'm pretty sure that there is going to be, or maybe there is already a virtual assistant that it actually does keep track of everything. 
 

And then you go back and like, yeah, I remember what you did three years ago.  
 

[00:03:45] Bruce Y Lee: Yeah, I remember you left the toilet seat up, uh, two weeks ago. So we'll talk. Don't ask me any more questions about this or something.  
 

[00:03:54] Marco Ciappelli: Probably. Oh my God. The future is really, really changing and getting interesting. Um, and you know, we laugh, but there is a, there is a lot to think about in many, many aspects and that's what we do. 
 

I mean, we, we just came here and there's a wonderful empty bar. Once again, Bruce, still beautiful, still empty. We got to do something about that. Maybe we ask CHAT GPT how we can market.  
 

[00:04:21] Bruce Y Lee: Yes. People don't come to the bar. Makes me feel a little self conscious. Maybe it's me.  
 

[00:04:27] Marco Ciappelli: You know what? Send me the background. 
 

Next time we do this, I'm going to put the same bar. Maybe I mirror the background and we just pretend to be in the  
 

[00:04:36] Bruce Y Lee: same. Or we will look like we're in two different bars of the same franchise, right? Yeah. Or maybe  
 

[00:04:41] Marco Ciappelli: one day. We'll get together for real. And I have a podcast. We got together for real in the past, but we didn't record. 
 

Although it could have been a very nice location for for a podcast to record, but we didn't do it. So, uh, Here we are in this bar and and my office and uh, I know you have a couple of uh, Things coming up, uh by the time people listen to this one of this may have already happened Which doesn't mean that we cannot put a link to that because we can travel in time I guess it's one thing we're able to do and one that is probably About to happen and I found them both interesting. 
 

They could be Individual episode no matter what but why not just jam it into our 30 minutes conversation. So Okay, what you're up to?  
 

[00:05:33] Bruce Y Lee: Yeah, so january 30th. Um, we're gonna be having a uh Workshop, uh, on basically looking at farming and agricultural technologies and how and what's being developed right now, what will be developed in the future, and how these technologies, well, can potentially help people better fulfill nutrition requirements and dietary guidelines. 
 

Um, and we felt that, and so this is a, uh, National Academies of Science, Engineering, Medicine event. Uh, I'm, I'm a chair of a committee, the committee that's putting on this event. Um, and. Sort of the genesis for this came from, you know, one of the, uh, sponsors of the, um, our committee, uh, the USDA, United States Department of Agriculture. 
 

And they were very interested in saying and looking at, well, you know, what are these different types of technologies and how, how can they actually help ultimately help nutrition and health? Um, and it's important for several reasons. So one is, first of all, there's a lot of. Misinformation and disinformation about their out there about like agriculture and farming technologies. 
 

And so you'll, you know, you'll see things that are accurate versus completely not accurate, but also, you know, we're facing a lot of increasing challenges when it comes to, you know, how to better fulfill nutritional requirements and how, you know, what, what's happening to food sources. So on the one hand with food sources, you've got things like, you know, there's been a lot of over farming. 
 

So a lot of the. You know, we're having less and less soil that's tillable, or the soil may have fewer nutrients, or you're running out of land to actually plant different types of crops, or things like, uh, you know, running out of, uh, food supply in oceans, uh, and lakes and places like that. Or you're also having climate change, you know, which is affecting all these types of harvests and yields. 
 

And those things like that. And at the same time, the population keeps growing, right? I mean, we don't have the same population that we had 20 years ago. There's a lot more people on earth and population requirements are changing. And then, you know, you see all these different things like allergies, uh, people, uh, you know, the, the race of allergies have been changing over years. 
 

Um, so a lot of interesting challenges. Plus, you know, you get some type of food item like a tomato or something like that. A tomato is not equal to another tomato, which is not equal to another tomato, right? If you eat a tomato, you may, that tomato may have more or less nutrients, depending on how it was grown, how long it remained in storage, how long it's been out there. 
 

So just because someone says you should eat a tomato or eat whatever, doesn't mean you're getting the same stuff. So there's all these different types of challenges that are out there. And, you know, we talk about technology. Uh, this is a situation where technology can really help. So we're really, we're going to bring together many different experts. 
 

Uh, you know, probably around a dozen experts in this area that are developing different types of technologies, and they're going to discuss what they're doing and also what the future looks like. So it should be exciting.  
 

[00:09:02] Marco Ciappelli: Uh, yeah, it's, uh, I guess it's not more, uh, potato, potato, tomato, tomato. You actually have, there is a difference and that makes sense. 
 

That's, that's why I guess we go back to organic or biologic. We call it in Europe, biologic. We got the French term for that. And I don't care. I mean, I, what people may think, but the. You can taste the difference, um, you know, and, and at one point of what you said, talking about the past, I, I, again, I'm going to bring my Italian knowledge here, but one of the best tomatoes are coming from the Naples area, as well as other kind of fruit. 
 

And one of the reason is because the volcanic soil from Mount Vesuvio and, and so that happened, I believe, in other places where there are volcanoes and where you have a climate, of course, that you can grow that kind of stuff. And I'm wondering how technology, it can help improve the quality where, where the weather and the location maybe is not so. 
 

So I keep thinking of hydrophonic farms. Is that something that you guys are going to probably talk about, like create artificial climate to actually do these things in the right way?  
 

[00:10:24] Bruce Y Lee: Yeah. So if you think about technologies, you know, it can be divided into different types of categories. So one is, you know, how do you actually change? 
 

The, uh, quote unquote growing environment. And when we talk about growing, it can be like ranging from plants to fish or what have you. So how do you actually change that environment either? Because the environment is changing over time. So you don't have the same environment that we had in what the 1950s or 1940s or, um, The, uh, there's new ways to do things that can actually increase the yield, increase, increase the possibility. 
 

So one certainly is like what's happening around what your, the food product that you're trying to grow. Uh, but then there's also technologies that can affect the food product itself. Um, ranging from potential, you know, uh, different types of breeding, different types of, um, uh, genetic engineering. I know, I know. 
 

Many people will react a certain way if they hear the term genetic engineering, but you know, there are techniques out there that could be helpful or some people might say, well, we don't want to see that, but it's, it's important to talk about what the different possibilities are. So yeah, so different types of technologies or even things like different types of technologies to get and do things like monitor growth or help just facilitating harvesting. 
 

So there's all these different types of things.  
 

[00:11:48] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, interesting enough, by the time we have this conversation live, it would have been already live, but I talked yesterday with the Undersecretary of the Department of Homeland Security, Dr. Dmitry Khrushchev. And, um, he was a CS and we were talking about all the different things that the Department of Health, you know, his department is looking at and it's from FEMA to emergency to anyway, infrastructure, anything that regards also all this kind of technology and we end up talking about how, like a company like John Deere for tractors, they're, they're not really a a machine company anymore. 
 

They're a technology company. They can look at the soil nowadays not only because, you know, they're autonomous, but they have so much technology they can see if the soil is more fertile in a place or another. If it's less, they're going to drop double the quantity of seeds. And then they got a LASER to zap. 
 

The, the bad weed and, and monitor the growth. And so, um, yeah, I mean, I don't know people, I guess you're right. Genetic modification. It's a bad news because now we've seen non GMO. So people may associate that, but I think there is good genetic and modification and bad genetic modification. So I guess you need to be open to that. 
 

[00:13:20] Bruce Y Lee: You raised some additional uses of technology, like the actual. Growing strategy and all those different types of things. And I think, you know, there can be a tendency when people think of, you know, a farmer or a fisher person, uh, you think of kind of the old image, some with a pole, you know, or someone just kind of standing, you know, with, uh, with, with a, uh, shovel or a hoe or something like that, or a rake. 
 

But these things are getting a lot more sophisticated over the years. So there could be a lot of techno, these are large operations that include a lot of, uh, technology, uh, already. And, uh, these things are only going to get more complicated in the future.  
 

[00:14:06] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. And I think another thing that we can talk about this is, I have one comment again. 
 

Remember that my grandfather grew up in the farm, you know, in Italy back in the, in the 40s. And he used to say all the time that, uh, in Italian it rhymes. So I'm not going to say it in Italian, but in English it means that the farmers are big boots. But a very thin, sharp brain, which means that yet you're working the land, but you'd need to know so many things. 
 

It's still a science. You need to know the season. You need to know how to treat diseases. You need to know what to do if something happened. I mean, it is. It was already. It's always been science to know the season of Doing something cropping and next in changing things in the in the fruit itself. So it's not surprising. 
 

That's what I'm about to say that, you know, that science and technology can do so much for this. And on the other hand is important, I think. And I had a conversation is with the with the vice president of the Fresh Produce Association. And my question was, is this going to make the bigger company bigger? 
 

And the smaller company. Smaller because they are the only one that can develop this kind of technology. And our point was that Either through a consortium, through communities, or through development of technology that you can have on your phone, just like by scanning something, know what kind of disease that leaves has, that olive tree or whatever it is, it's actually going to benefit the small grower as well. 
 

Definitely welcoming technology and all of this. And it sounds like a fantastic conversation or a panel to be on.  
 

[00:16:01] Bruce Y Lee: Yeah, you can think of it. I mean, you know, there's examples of industries that have been transformed different ways by technology. So for instance, uh, you know, it used to be, if you wanted to produce a movie, you had to go get a big studio and all these things, get all the special effects and those things like that. 
 

But now with the software. With things like YouTube or what have you, uh, you have people producing things, which are, you know, would have been considered very good quality. 20, 30 years ago, like they, they can look studio studio quality, but you have individuals doing this or maybe very small groups. So the argument for technology in those areas, it's helped democratize a lot of entertainment so that you're not heavily dependent on just big studios for everything. 
 

Uh, so that's an example of a positive. So yeah, it's not necessarily. Yeah. I've seen that before where people would say, well, okay, if this requires all these technologies, then only, only the big dogs can do it, but that's not necessarily the case. It all depends. Uh, it can really actually facilitate individuals or individual groups. 
 

And like you said, you know, you can have networks where people are connected to them. Help each other do things. So lots of possibilities.  
 

[00:17:23] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. And usually the market goes in a way where yes, at the beginning, maybe only the, the big dogs, the big corporation can invest in doing research and development. 
 

And maybe yes, they have the heads up that come in the entertainment industry. I mean, you couldn't do CGI on your home computer. What you could, you needed huge, huge computer to do back in the days, but now you can run this program. In the cloud throughout your phone and and be totally fine with that. So maybe there is that first stage, but then it does. 
 

It's trickle down AI. It's a good example of that, you know, with 30 bucks a month, you can get the best CHAT GPT that you have. So, yeah, really good point. I love to, I love to know, and maybe we can even figure out if we can organize a panel from that panel in the future where we, maybe you invite a couple of people and we have this chat that will be really good. 
 

But I know you have another good one coming up, which is kind of related.  
 

[00:18:29] Bruce Y Lee: Yep. Yep. I also wanted to add, you know, the other thing is. Technology can help connect food sources, farming, agriculture, to the individual consumer, too, in many different ways. Uh, like I, I, I mentioned that it's difficult to, you know, many people may find it difficult to fulfill nutritional guidelines. 
 

dietary guidelines, nutritional requirements, you know, you look, look at these different types of things and then you say, okay, but, uh, you know, social and socially and culturally, you know, I've got to eat hot dogs or something like that, you know, and like that obviously doesn't fit in there or say you are, um, you know, Making a fruitcake or something like that. 
 

And you want to say, okay, I'm putting all these components in there, but like, how does this actually connect with me getting enough nutrients? So you can have technology helping you understand, okay, based on the food sourcing, based on where the food comes from, this is what your, the results will be in terms of your health and nutrition and you know, what's the difference does it make to get this type of farming versus that type of farming. 
 

So there's that connection as well. So, you know. Again, something, something to keep in mind because there can be a tendency to think, Oh, well, this technology that just helps things upstream. And then I'm not even going to think about it. I'm just going to eat whatever comes to my, close to my mouth. Uh, but this is a way of sort of connecting people. 
 

With this food source, because it used to be right. It used to be, uh, not super long ago, you would eat what you would pick, right? You would say, I'm hungry. I'm going to go to that tree and pick something, or I'm going to grow this and I'm going to eat it. Like we tend to think, well, that was a long time ago, but that wasn't too long ago, you know, a hundred years, 200 years. 
 

Um, so then you like, you knew what exactly you're like, okay, I need to eat this. And this is where this comes from. But now, um, you have that separation, that disconnect. In fact, I've seen studies or interviews where you ask people like. Where do french fries come from? And then people don't know that. Oh, that actually came from the ground before. 
 

From, from France. Oh, exactly. Yes. From France and Freiland, right? So, uh, or Freiburg, right? It probably came from Freiburg. But, uh, yeah, so people, people don't really know that. So connecting people with the food sources. Closer is another thing. Yeah.  
 

[00:20:56] Marco Ciappelli: Which, which again, connect to what you're about to talk, which is more like science communication. 
 

But yes, that that fourth, uh, what they call the fourth industrial revolution. Now, um, it's about not the technology on his own. That was more like, you know, maybe the third, but the connection of different technology that Which also brings to connect probably the consumer and be more proactive towards this because if you can have something, even your own fridge that tells you that, uh, I'm going to scan all the food that you have in here and you get a grade of. 
 

F because it's really all bad for you or for your, I don't know, medical condition that you have. How about we do a better assortment? And then you connect the entire, I don't know, blockchain and analysis of food and food farmers and to decide how to optimize also what to deliver in certain areas. So, I mean, there is an all network that the technology can help. 
 

And it is changing the way we do. We do things. Problem is, a lot of people don't know. We need to tell them. How do people even care? 
 

[00:22:15] Bruce Y Lee: Communication is important.  
 

[00:22:18] Marco Ciappelli: Which brings us to Which is,  
 

[00:22:21] Bruce Y Lee: perfect segue. To? Since we don't have a kind of dramatic shifting music, you know. I could add it, I could add it. You know, you, you have in the Avengers when suddenly like Thanos shows, well, okay, I don't want to apply it, there's a shift to Thanos, but like when, when the, when the hero comes in. 
 

So the hero lands, you know, you have the, the, um, the, the music and, and, and then there's a shift in mood and things like that. So we don't, we don't have the background music just yet, but this is where we would put it. So, yes. So science communications. Uh, is something that's super important. It's become increasingly important, uh, I'd say over the past decade or so, because there is so much misinformation out there. 
 

And so it's disinformation. And then you've seen in many times studies, which have shown that, you know, kind of knowledge of different types of science has been going down. Or like you've probably seen, uh. Some of those, uh, late night talk show, uh, segments where they go out onto the street Oh, . And they ask people basic questions and that's scary. 
 

Yeah. You, you people don't know. And, uh, I think it's just because in big part, people have not been exposed to a lot of these different things, um, because, you know, you, you. You can, you can ask someone some, you know, some science questions they may not know, but, but you, you ask them like name all the Avengers and all their powers and stuff like that, or, or tell me everything about Taylor Swift or something like that, and then like, it all comes out. 
 

So it's not like people don't have the capacity to know different things. It's just that they haven't been exposed to these things. So just think, imagine if you're, if people were to put in as much time or have as much exposure to science, different science things as you know, what's Tony Stark and Iron Man is doing, um, that can have a huge positive impact in our society, right? 
 

And, uh, and, and, and science is, it's fun. So I think one of the key things is we need to talk about how you can transform science communications, uh, because it's not. I was talking to someone the other day who, uh, this person admitted, Oh, uh, so wasn't a fan of science, you know, in high school and college and kind of viewed it as. 
 

Yeah, just something like, it's like medicine, right? You got to take medicine. I'm going to learn this, but it doesn't have to be that way. Right. It can be interesting and engaging. So, yeah, so I'm going to, uh, January 21st, uh, I'm going to have a Q and a, uh, question answer discussion with drum roll, please. 
 

Francis Collins, Dr. Francis Collins, who he was the longest standing director of the National Institutes of Health, NIH. So he crossed four different presidential administrations, which is okay about survival. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You're talking about like he was there through, you know, different parties and et cetera. 
 

So, um, he has seen and knows a lot. And even, and prior to that, he was, he was central to the human genome project. So he was, uh, Uh, very complex scientists, even before becoming a director of NIH and then was director of NIH for many years. Uh, and he knows a lot about obviously science and knows a lot about science. 
 

Communication is, is very interesting. Science can be, I think he recognizes the importance of it. So this is an opportunity for people to join and ask questions. You know, I'll be moderating, uh, you know, from someone who really has a, uh, quite a unique perspective and eye. On science communications and what's needed. 
 

[00:26:31] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. And what's, what's amazing. And I think the opportunity here is that a part that the fact that he was probably involved in all of this before becoming, working for four different president. So if you take that all those four plus four plus four presidential years, and you get his experience, you're talking about probably somebody that made the transition from. 
 

Before social media, to social media, to fake news, to manipulation for whatever political reason of, of information. And I think, yeah, just even from that aspect, it can bring a lot of, a lot of stories. You said something. They make me think. At a personal level, too. I've always said I'm always been more a humanistic guy. 
 

I always like more literature. I always like more philosophy, which end up to be kind of my career, sociology and all of that. And I can't understand math. When I look back, I had a great teacher. In the subject that I like and I have really crappy one in the one that I don't like meaning They didn't excite me, right? 
 

They like you say it's that the medicine that you need to take but A it doesn't have to be like that b It's actually not like that because there are very exciting Science communicator, which is not even a profession on his own. It's actually being a teacher. You are communicating science to whatever grade you're teaching, and it can make the difference between transmitting that passion for a future career versus hell. 
 

No, I'm not going to be an engineer because It's just not good. I mean, I think example of astronauts that come back, physicists that are well known, Carl Sagan, uh, DeGrasse Tyson, just to mention a few of that, just they're fun. They're telling you a good story. They make it understandable. And all of a sudden you're like, Hey, let me learn more about what they just said versus, you know, a completely different, uh, you know, science, dogs, whatever, barking things,  
 

[00:28:57] Bruce Y Lee: trying to communicate,  
 

[00:29:00] Marco Ciappelli: making any sense. 
 

And the mailman is not liking it.  
 

[00:29:04] Bruce Y Lee: He might be trying to make a major important point, but what he's not doing, he's not putting it in the right. Sort of context, right? So maybe you might be saying something and you're like, well, that's not the right context,  
 

[00:29:16] Marco Ciappelli: but you got my point. So while I wait for my dog to shut up your point of making things exciting. 
 

[00:29:23] Bruce Y Lee: Yeah. Well, you know, I think the thing is, uh, you know, I've heard, uh, many times from, uh, so I do, you know, a lot of AI work, a lot of mathematical kind of modeling type of work. And many times we'll have people. Yeah. Who will say, Oh, well, I'm not a math person, but I'm interested in learning more about this. 
 

And I've had situations where people actually have taken to it, like, you know, a fish to water ultimately. And they actually have very good math capabilities, but you know, they majored in something else. You know, they majored in humanities or something like that because for the reason that you indicated, where, when it was originally posed to them, when math was originally posed to them, it was posed in a very dry way. 
 

No one explained. Why this is useful from a day to day perspective, right? So it's like, here's the formula, just memorize this formula or just know how to use this formula. And you're like, well, why? What's not really fully explained is that math describes everything, right? If you look at like all these phenomenon or behaviors, they follow mathematical equations. 
 

The way people respond to things, the way, you know, the wind works. The way the shapes of things, you notice that, you know, there's certain shapes that always appear and there's some shapes that never appear because it's governed by many times mathematical formulas. There's some, something in the creation of all these things are following. 
 

So it's a way of describing the universe and describing our world. And if you pose it that way, then suddenly it becomes a lot more interesting, right? Because it's, it's more relevant. And I think we can do that a lot with science. I think there can be the assumption that science is either something like medicine or something is that should be told by one person to another to say, this is, this is the way it is. 
 

Whereas instead, like I think everyone has the capability or capacity of sort of understanding a lot of these principles, but let's make it more fun. Let's make it more interesting. Um, that's one of the reasons why I try to, when I write things for like Forbes and cover science and health, I try to make it a little more fun. 
 

Um, and you know, not like serious all the time. Not like, you know, the world is exploding type of, you know, news. It's more like, you know, this is, this is, this is the amusing parts of it.  
 

[00:31:49] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, it, that's the thing is when they tell you what, this is just the way it is. I just need to memorize. I remember in college I had my first exam was, uh, history and I am just not good in just memorizing things, right? 
 

Dates, name. I'm good in understanding why things happen, the concept, the contextual thing. And it, that just came down to that. Like a professor that was telling me that story is made of dates and name and places. And I completely disagree with that. That was my initial, you know, first exam in college. And, and it was actually the worst exam I've ever took. 
 

And then I got a little luckier because for me it was like, well, I understand why, I don't know, the, the War of the Roses started between France and England. And, and I don't remember all the kings and queens and general and the perfect date. So. But the, the thing of why, like, like asking why, like a kid, like kid, like, okay, I understand you tell me that word, but why, why, why, why, you kind of want to touch to your own experience. 
 

So if you can translate that, why this happen, then it has a completely different meaning. And, and, and the way you communicate this, um, it makes a complete difference. I think that it comes down to say, can you explain it to a five years old kid, um, I don't know, quantum physics, for example. I can't, but I'm sure that if you really understand it, you can. 
 

Maybe don't in depth. You may create a new quantum physicist, somebody that wants to be a quantum physicist. Just because you kind of gave a better answer than, well, that's just the way it is. Oh, that's not going to help me. Are we doing, in your opinion, enough? In my opinion, no. To make science, medicine, any kind of science, really, more appealing, more understandable, instead of keeping that shaman attitude of I retain all the secret. 
 

You need to come to me and I can, you know, move some, uh, I don't know, burn charcoal and tell you what the future is going to be. Is it our fault a little bit? Is this scientist fault a little bit?  
 

[00:34:16] Bruce Y Lee: Yeah, I think we have a ways to go. And I think, uh, you know, in some ways things have gone the opposite direction over the past Couple decades because a lot of these scientific disciplines have becoming increasingly siloed. 
 

Like you have someone who specializes in this one little thing and then they come up with their own language so that then even like another scientist can't even understand what they're talking about.  
 

[00:34:40] Marco Ciappelli: Acronyms. I, I hate acronyms. I can't. Yeah.  
 

[00:34:44] Bruce Y Lee: Oh, I, I remember I, I was in a meeting once where basically the entire meeting, it was a meeting of different people of different disciplines. 
 

Um, and they all came together and the entire meeting was spent arguing about what is meant by the word tool, T O O L, because tool means different things in different disciplines. So like this went on and you know, I had no, I had no, uh, horse in the race. I was just kind of observing this and you know, like someone saying tool means this tool means that, and they were just arguing about it. 
 

And I'm thinking I can think of another. Definition of the word tool that is, that, um, that applies to this situation. But I think, I think it's gotten worse in that sense. Everything has become siloed and, you know, uh, but, but there's a lot we can do. Like, for instance, I was part of this, um, National Academies program where, uh, you know, I could meet with screenwriters and directors and, and give advice in terms of how to make the scripts more. 
 

Uh, scientifically accurate. Uh, and they welcome that. They're like, yeah, why not? Why not make it more accurate if you're going to show something in the movies?  
 

[00:35:58] Marco Ciappelli: So that's cool. I actually, you know, who told me that there's quite a bit of this is Neil Cummings, our friends from the mentor project. He does a lot of consulting. 
 

He's an astrophysicist and he does a lot of consulting in this because people actually now they do that. It's not just sci fi. I remember when I was a kid, I would never wonder if why, you know, Canon X, uh, wing fly with that Kind of structure in space or I don't care. I think it was just cool. But now I see more and more when there is a sci fi New show. 
 

They go into how accurate is it? Could it really happen? Can you hear noise in space? Yeah. No, but we do put it just for the drum roll special effect, right? But it's cool to know that, yeah, this is possible. Not possible. Doesn't mean you can still enjoy it. It's still fantasy. But a lot of sci fi it's actually based on, on, on possibilities, maybe not real now, but if I remembered, uh, our smartphone now are pretty much what Star Trek used to use. 
 

[00:37:10] Bruce Y Lee: So there you have it. Oh, lots of things that appeared in Star Trek are the, kind of the basis of inventions that we have now. Yeah. Wow. Still waiting for the transporter though, so.  
 

[00:37:24] Marco Ciappelli: And the time machine, which by the way, I was actually listening to the other English really good communicator. His name is Brian Cox. 
 

He's another astrophysicist. I mentioned him a few times because he's a really cool dude. And there was a little clip on Instagram that they asked him if space travel Is possible and it said yes But only in the future you cannot go back But you can fly as fast almost like nine point nine nine nine percent of the speed of light when you come back you will be In the future because you will be so much younger and maybe hundreds of thousands of year Or a hundred years have passed by depending on how Long you stay away traveling at that speed, you can come back and see the future and you're still you. 
 

So that's kind of like a time machine, maybe not the Doctor Who that we know, but, um, and again, That's a cool example. I want to know more. Why does he know this thing? What's the speed of light? But, you know, like it can trigger so many more things that just say, you know, the formula of it. Absolutely. So I guess we need advertisers and creative people working in science and help making some really cool stories. 
 

There you go. Yep. Yep. Well, this was fun. I really enjoyed these two completely different topic, but also in somehow related one to another, because as they all are, as we are related from being a cell, carbon and, uh, and, uh, and silicon, because at this point we're just It's all in the same blender, and, uh, that's just life it is nowadays. 
 

So very cool, Bruce. Good to see you. Uh, say hi to everybody in that bar. That should be pretty quick. It should be just a quick wave of your hands. There's no one here. And I'm looking forward for our next conversation, uh, recorded. I know there'll be many other in between, but recorded. It's about once a month and uh next time, uh, you'll tell me how both these events went. 
 

I'm very curious Absolutely. All right, everybody stay tuned once a month we get together in this bar where a lot of weird characters walks in it's kind of like in star wars and We play some jazz maybe next time. Take care everybody Bye