Explore how Web 3.0 is revolutionizing the music industry, empowering artists, and reshaping the way we interact with music. Discover the potential of NFTs, blockchain, and decentralized technology in this exciting new episode.
Guest: Charles Ellingsen, CEO and Founder of Unity Network [@unitynetworkapp]
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlieellingsen
On Twitter | https://twitter.com/justacharlieeth
On YouTube | https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXD9WhRTBrZU2VV3dxAEsPw
Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
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Episode Introduction
"Explore how Web 3.0 is revolutionizing the music industry, empowering artists, and reshaping the way we interact with music. Discover the potential of NFTs, blockchain, and decentralized technology in this exciting new episode."
Welcome to a brand new episode of Redefining Society! Today, we're diving into the fascinating world of Web 3.0 and how it's transforming the music industry. We're going beyond the hype of NFTs and cryptocurrencies to explore the true potential of decentralized technology in empowering artists and reshaping the way we interact with music. So, buckle up and get ready for a thrilling ride as we discuss the future of music in the age of Web 3.0.
Web 3.0 is opening up new opportunities for musicians and redefining the way we consume music. From smart contracts to NFT ticketing, we'll explore how these groundbreaking technologies are disrupting traditional business models and enabling artists to take control of their careers like never before.
As always, we invite you to join the conversation, share your thoughts, and help us redefine society. Don't forget to leave a comment, share this episode with your friends, and subscribe to stay up-to-date with the latest episodes.
In this captivating discussion, we'll explore how artists can leverage the power of Web 3.0 to connect with fans, generate revenue, and protect their intellectual property. We'll also examine the broader implications of decentralized technology on the music industry as a whole, touching upon topics such as transparency, accountability, and the role of intermediaries in the digital age.
So, tune in and discover the exciting possibilities that Web 3.0 holds for musicians, fans, and the music industry at large. Let's redefine society together and unleash the true potential of technology to empower artists and bring us closer to the music we love.
Remember to comment, share, and subscribe to stay updated with the latest episodes of Redefining Society. Let's embark on this journey together and uncover the future of music in the era of Web 3.0!
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Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording as errors may exist. At this time we provide it “as it is” and we hope it can be useful for our audience.
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SPEAKERS
Marco Ciappelli and Charles Ellingsen
Marco Ciappelli 00:01
All right, we are trying to redefine society again it's it's a hard task but I am not giving up on trying to place our society into connected the tech can reconnect society with with the digital world and technology and I think there is a lot of people that are refusing that kind of like the old days maybe our nothing is as good as it used to be. I don't know that's kind of another sound like a grandparent but there are there people that are born actually into a world that is already full of technology smartphone, the internet, I'm kind of consider myself lucky because I've kind of in between, I've experienced the analog world as a as a teenager in the 80s. And and then I deep dive into the digital world and that goes with the internet computer. But also it goes with music, because if you know me, I I like music and never gonna pass an opportunity to talk about that. And so today I'm excited about this conversation with Charles Ellingson. Ellingson actually straight from Norway all the way over there. While I'm in LA right now, and I'm excited to have this conversation about technology, music and FTS 1.3 cryptocurrency but mostly, I think we're going to talk about music because Charles is a former musician, can you ever be ever former musician, I think you're always going to if you're a musician, you're always going to be a musician. But we'll dig into that as well. So before I get too annoying with this, Charles, welcome to the show. Please introduce yourself and and then I'm looking forward to have this conversation.
Charles Ellingsen 02:04
Well, thank you for having me, I've been looking forward to to be here more. You may not know this about me, but I've been listening to your podcast and alone. This whole thing represents I think it's really touching into very deep, but interesting and and needed subjects that we need to get more light on. And you inviting me here to connect to talk about NF T's role in music and we will touch into all of these subjects. But it's it's highly interesting, and I'm hyped for it. Well, as you said, I'm Charles, I'm the CEO of unity network. Short story. I found a unique network in 2021. Where we are now developing an NFT based ticketing system for both professional and private event organizers. We trying to create basically what we are doing with is we're trying to create a platform that is easy to use and inclusive for both artists and event organizers where everyone's invited basically prior to being being blessed with the position I have now at Unity network. I've worked with many things been invested in blockchain in the blockchain industry since 2014. When were three advisors since 2016. I've been doing HR in as an investor also in some projects, management and sales of course, which is which is sales is something I have a small heart for but since my early doesn't basically from my 20s and earlier I was my heart was with music. I found an interest in music from from a very early age. And I always borrowed guitars because I couldn't afford myself one myself. But when I was 13 You normally you're able to start working when the 13th and I started working on my birthday that morning I stood up at 6am in the morning and saw newspapers to try to get to get afford to afford an A guitar basically. But when I was 14 years old and newspaper selling newspapers in Norway as a 13 year old boy, it's it's not you don't earn gold. So it's so So when I was 14, I was blessed with my sister who bought me my first L, basically electric guitar. And that, that began my journey within the music industry basically.
Marco Ciappelli 05:14
And it always stays with you, like I said at the beginning, you know, when they when you're, when you love music, you don't want to stop it. And that's kind of like, I think it could be the the title of this episode is going to be, don't stop the music. And I think it was suggested, in what in what your bio was, was saying. So how can we connect all of this, which is the love for technology, your marketing, selling experience and your passion for music? And I think we can we can, we should have this conversation rotate right around there, which is what you do with your new company. And I feel like, maybe it's one of those things that makes you get up early every morning with the passion of doing something kind of like what you did the first time that you went and sold newspaper for your birthday. So that was a lot about who you are. So what what was the catalyst to say, I can put all of this together, right? I can connect my passions and make a business out of it, but also maybe change the way to society work in a certain way. Maybe the musician approach their business, their own copyrights and their future in a certain way. So I know is a big question, but start wherever you want, like,
Charles Ellingsen 06:49
yeah, yeah. Well, this conversation is now very interesting, of course. Well, let me think of it this way, building a band is very fun. Before going into this solo, venture of mine, and with writing songs, I used to have a band where we did cover songs, you know, Iron Maiden Guns and Roses, Goo Goo Dolls.
Marco Ciappelli 07:18
You just You just name my two favorite bands. If you put Black Sabbath in there, you got it all.
Charles Ellingsen 07:26
Oh, yeah, they're great. So so we had, we had all this. Putting a band together. Sometimes someone isn't cut for it, or they have too much school, but at least when I was 16 1718 years old, but having auditions creating demand, wow, that's magic. You have auditions, you jam together to see if you're a good fit. It's like dating basically. And you get to know know people form very, very strong bad bonds. No music is, is played by the heart first and foremost. And then you listen with your ears. And when you create something you just jam together, creating medleys is magical. And being an entrepreneur, creating us in Africa is not that different. We have interviews, web three workshops. We get to know people from around the world having meetings with people from Belgium, yesterday, this morning from Germany and now having this interview with juries. It's It's so interesting for me, and I'm drawn to it. I think much because of the music industry. I'm drawn to all the people. So other Yeah, to basically to this and the music industry, much like the web. Three industries is very social, and fun. But it's it's quite tough. Also. When we saw the shift from web one, you know, you remember those old HTML websites and emails that you couldn't change the text size to the web to where we got social media, Facebook and and the other big companies like Google, which made searching much easier and connecting much easier. And online ticketing services as well. This was great because now we had a bigger audience. We could attack a bigger audience as artists as musicians. If we had to. Had a concert in our local pub area. On a Saturday evening. We could put post this on Facebook, and it was groundbreaking. I remember I had Facebook since 2008. Because of the music. I didn't care about connecting with my With my friends was at school because we just we just rang the door. And I think now we are going to use different states the third stage, which is should be for people going from one way one to web two, I think going from web to web three should be experienced in a positive way for the artist that is involved. With the other layer of web pre we can secure smart tickets as NF Ts, we can have NF T's worth one song like a single remember those singles up to series. And you can basically sell a ticket, but hey, you get to new world premiere of my song baked into your NFT ticket and it will be available after the concert, you cannot do that with many of the other services. Because you would then own the song because it's an NF T, I think it makes it even more convenient and easier to host the gig. But it also makes it more convenient and easier for guests to be involved.
Marco Ciappelli 11:16
So let me let me stop you because I already know this is gonna be a conversation that can go in a lot of different direction, even if we stay in the realm of music. But maybe for our audience, you kind of define very quickly, you know, web 1.0, then web 2.0, which you know, tells social media and maybe applications and the smartphone rolling in and having Apps and API and stuff. But then you got the web 3.0 You're ready throw they're like NF T's and maybe independence from this bigger website. But could you maybe summarize the way that you you would explain web 3.0 to someone that it's not as tech savvy as as you are, like, explain it to an unknown one of your friends or grandma or, you know, as to say like, What is your opinion, the essence of web 3.0?
Charles Ellingsen 12:23
So I like to explain it to if I explain it to my mother, and she's now she's involved, she knows. Yeah. You may say that. The Internet, web one, the original Internet is a connection of computers. The cloud is another version or entities computer, what you call the cloud. Web three is the connection of application and services. Where we have entered this web three space web to space was answered with the industry in focus. They saw their shot and took it. That's why we're having Facebook and these big entities but what three was made by people. So that's why we're reading about people being crypto billionaires or have suddenly Oh, I forgot about bitcoins, I didn't know they were supposed to be worth anything. And on the other side, you have people that have used should have used something that is secure and open as web three, but didn't have it. So you have going back to the original is you have connected computers which is the internet with web three is connected services and it's open. All transactions should be open and available on the end. A good example of this use case is if you're going to give some something to Red Cross, if you give $100 to Red Cross, where does that money go? You don't know where it goes. If it comes to free live or if it goes to the organization itself which both is good, but it would be amazing if you gave them $100 And you can just follow that dollars from wallet to wallet to see Wow. They put out new shelters for shelter dogs. This is something worth treating. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. When we are talking NF T's many will think art. This is where your art sold. But know what three is. Nf T's is is is so much more than that. It's just the tip of the iceberg in India. They had this police station where many of the police report were weren't secure, they could be altered. They weren't delivered correctly. And other things. So what they did they begin this project NFT police report, the cannot be altered, you can spot a basically track from whoever files the police report anonymously, of course, and see where the police report lies. And if it had been altered, which is kind of impossible with contracts online, but if it has been, it's, it shows on the web three. So it's web three book retracing.
Marco Ciappelli 15:44
It's something to me, and I use this as an example. Sometimes it's my make business more accountable. Because you could track pretty much anything with that you can track even does this food label really? does what it says it does, like this ingredient? Where did they come from? So do they access, you can make everybody in the chain accountable. And you apply that say to the Red Cross to the police, to food and environment, you know, are you really as environmentally friendly as youth, as you say that you are, for example, and then we can now bring it back to, to the music. So here's what I'm thinking, since when I was a kid. You always think like the band, get the record label deal. And then they're done. They're like, yep, now we're successful, we got that record deal. But then, unless you're the really big band, if you want to say band, or singers or artists in general, you'll get a margin of that, because the record label takes a lot of it, and they kind of own you back in the days. And then I think with the web 2.0 People started to be more in control of their success. But there was also I think, a problem where as you and your band were advertising and maybe your Show on Facebook, and maybe somebody taped a show video recorded it, and they you get hundreds 1000s millions of views on now Tiktok maybe not back then but it will be Facebook or YouTube. Then at that point, the record company come to you and say, Oh, now you're successful, I'm going to give you a contract, because I know you can already you already have an audience to discover you you already been discover. But I think and correct me if I'm wrong, the result didn't change meaning once you get the label sign, they own your wallet pretty much and you get a residual of the contract with that. So what's the vision at this point of N RAS that understand the power and the potential the cryptocurrency and the digital contract and the crypto contract and the web 3.0 What is really that can happen in only in promoting yourself and not being owned by the record label.
Charles Ellingsen 18:29
Yeah, that's that's a very good remark and you've done your research. We actually Evie comm came from is inspiration is paraded by the Food and market basically. We chain is something that track flour, how much milk how much is how much water is it's in your bread when you buy it. You can basically track where the waters from. Flour is around. This is some inspiration for you become for our you become if you're an artist, and you have say or you're big as you say you made it. You have many on ticked off people following you and they want to make that you have an appearance in their city. Basically what an event organizer does for you is create the event and make you go on stage and host backstage and there's food good food, something to drink. You're having fun. So you're an artist, you you don't think about money if you're in love with the industry of music, want to create want to you want to move people. You want to share the love of what you're doing. And you want when you get noticed it's it's hard, it's easy to forget that it's actually an industry it's, it's money worth talking about. And I think that many record companies take advantage of this because it's profitable. If we were to have blockchain and MIT baked in every step of the way of the artist, even signing, the contract couldn't be altered, and it's online and whatever. You could see if someone's selling, say more who if you, you have a cup, that it's your face on it, holding your guitar, and your name, and people buying the Marco coffee cup coffee mug, you will get a portion of that. Every time someone buys something on blockchain, it's registered. And if we have basically showing some royalties to the to the artists, it should be at any paint point of sale, if you buy a Justin Bieber car, he should get some money from each sale, everywhere. And this is made possible with nfts. Also, some interesting Alon is if you're having a concert. As I said, with the release of song, it can be connected to the nfts. But you can also have connections with first one friend, hotel deals and, and so on to bring in more people towards your show. If we think about the artists, in this make marketing also more clever, and a bit cheaper. So the more money can go towards the artists. And with web three, we can see how much the event organizer gets, how much the venue owner gets, how much the marketeers get sales, how much ticket service get, and how much the artist gets. And if we had a look, if we had insight in this today, I can assure you that the artists that are rich means that you have a manager that is even more richer.
Marco Ciappelli 22:17
And I think history is full of that, like, you know, like artists that then they break up with her longtime manager because they find out that it was kind of a prepared enough money that maybe wasn't really made by him by that person. So but as you think there's, as an artist, you said something at the beginning and you're like, the artist doesn't think much about money. He thinks about art, it's kind of like the artist that is a painter, like a lot of artists, painters, they die poor, because they're not maybe commercially savvy and smart. There's others that actually made a lot of money during their lifetime, like Picasso, for example, but many other they didn't, they didn't have that, that edge. And then their value goes up after they're dead, but didn't get much during their time life. Now, how easy is for the person that is a musician to spend his life learning an instrument, putting the band together, writing and then say, well, I go with a record company with a manager because then they take care of the business side. And I can keep doing what I love to do. And when you present this contract technology, crypto and all of that and creating material that is creative, like I can attach perks, when you buy a ticket, maybe I'll get you a t shirt sign or a digital NFT that you can have as memory of the Guns and Roses concert or, or Beyonce or whatever you like. But aren't you as an artist still, depending from someone that knows all of that? Because do you want to dedicate yourself in learning all this stuff? How easy is it? And do artists really care?
Charles Ellingsen 24:23
I think much of being an artist is is that it comes naturally. It comes so it happens so slowly over time you learn to play guitar, it's fun. You master to play the guitar master to play some drums. We need some innings we because we play this, I would say at parties or in the woods, whatever. And meet people who have the same interest. You form a band and this goes slowly. This is five six years you know and you're doing good. You finally lead singer he's amazing or she's amazing. And they learn to play guitar to the singers. And we're just having fun and someone says, Hey, you should do a gig one time, I will call on this and You should get money out of this. And then it happens. It's so slowly, it's so slow paced. But like Justin Bieber's, who was discovered on YouTube, for people, which was discovered, it isn't like earlier, they went in with investments, and made sure to sell or put the CD records all over the place. In Norway, we need to have it in Canada, we need to have it in South Asia. It's not like that anymore. Because of the internet, you get famous, even if it's planned or not. And I think it's a beauty and a curse. Because people see green when you get famous, and you have no way of tracking how much they take of your cut without the crypto industry. And this is where Evie comm and an NFT ticket services come in hand because we that service can be the middleman with you and your manager and the venue. They register. At the end of the day, a contract, which is the code for for crypto, basically, for the NFT ticket. Whenever a ticket is sold, you get $10 they get $10 each, and everyone is is fair price. So it's fair price. Basically. It happens so slowly, but success today happens overnight. So it's hard to get your mind to
Marco Ciappelli 26:45
say I guess again, I go back to my question, which is, as you're an artist, and you're building your, your expertise, your your art, whatever that is, how do you also get into your mind that you have to project yourself in the future? Hoping that you're gonna make it and be ready for when you're gonna make it? You know what I mean? Like, how do you know when is the time to get into protecting your, you know, your, your property, your your art before he goes out there, and he's on YouTubes. And he does on you know, DJ that may take a sample sampling of your song and put it in another song and you have no control. So my point is, it seems hard. If I put myself in the shoes of an artist to to say, I don't want to learn that. I'm gonna How am I going to do that?
Charles Ellingsen 27:56
But yeah, it's put your mind around it, wrap your mind around it. It's so odd. I don't know, haven't been famous. But I have known someone who's a good friend of mine, he was amazing on guitar. Also, he did well. And he just could because it wasn't for him. He didn't earn any money and you need to have a income you got a kid otherwise. And he was so talented. I mean, and I had this other man, a good friend of mine, he he used an event organizer for bigger events, and then aren't much either, because, of course they take home some more than the artist, that's for sure. But in the end, I think it's the marketing. And once that hosts the venue, of course the property that earns most cash from it. No every most event our events are relied on people volunteering to do work. And it's a reason for it. So I think either event organizers show hosting bigger events, when hearing that word sold out, they aren't prepared. And we have seen that time and time again. Same with the artists. You have seen. Artists go from 100 to zero because their mind is crazy, because we assume and I don't think is built for success overnight. But those who are well if you have a band and remember, let's say Guns and Roses is a good example. They were prepared. They have been sitting on records for a year producing CDs and they sent it out everywhere in the world and it marketed on every CD store. Of course people could buy it. It was planned that Today, it's not planned. So that's it's hard to wrap your mind around it, how to prepare for it. But I think the best way to prepare for it now is learn about new technologies that can help you and assist you in your way towards success. And make sure that you as an artist, or event organizer is paid equally, or what you've deserved.
Marco Ciappelli 30:24
I'd like to pick your brain for something that you're discussing right now, which is event so there are physical events. And then you know that there is the metaverse, I don't want to talk about the metaverse, but I want to talk about the opportunity of monetize from your art without being in the system of getting 10 Big trucks to go from one city to another having your own Boeing 747 are big and or getting into the van as you've seen a lot of stories where the band goes around, you know, unloading the drums, unloading the base loading all of that. And do you see the web 3.0 offering opportunities to to offer alternatives to artists to monetize with their art? So instead of just being a YouTube video where sure you can make money because advertisers are going to stick you know an ad at the beginning and the end of your video. What about virtual concerts? What about virtual session or how many other ways you think that could pop up with some creative mind and the right technology
Charles Ellingsen 31:52
oh it's it's quite interesting with virtual concert and how they work today I don't think they work as well for the artist as they do for the actual hosting platform like YouTube if you have
Marco Ciappelli 32:07
again again your works for the for the venue but it doesn't work for the artists
Charles Ellingsen 32:14
yeah and but virtual concert is I think that why hosting YouTube when you can host yourself why experienced to have someone earn from commercials on your content when you can just you can record your content a camera is very available today. You can record live record your concert connected to something within my tree or even just an open source or Morrow this or more people and the system where you sell your content directly to your users. The problem is that how are you going to be discovered so this is something that is more for people that is discovered or can market themselves because every step of the way would be on your hands? Well, you have started then you have learned how to play guitar, drums whatever. And you have done all of that of course you can market yourself. Remember when in the early 20s I we were running around time at Town picking up flyers sit safely fliers up for people to get noticed that we have a concert this Friday and we have all the social media but we don't have to use you can have an admission to your concert which is playing live at one certain point of time on our website live Evie comm where you just scan your phone to watch the Camera Connect your wallet. And as soon as the connection is secured, you see that is this ticket is secure, you are able to enter and by the sales statistics the also the artists knows how many people will will attend live YouTube you aren't able to know how on beforehand but you can say it's it's better to have the choices and and the responsibility yourself that you need to have the knowledge as well. So it's easier with with YouTube. But we need to learn to work to learn to lean towards the future and the new technology and capture it instead of just letting it slip.
Marco Ciappelli 34:42
Yeah, I mean it's it's something that it's like any other passion that you have, as they say if you can, if you can, if you love what you do, you don't work a day in your life. But, but you can no need to write you need to monetize Is that so? No, it's great to be an artist is great to be a writer because as you're talking about musician, I'm thinking writers, I mean, writers, they have the same, the same issue. They depend on a publisher. And then they need to be on a digital, you know, like Amazon. And then if you do the audio, yeah, sure, I can do the audio, but how am I going to sell it? So you always end up with the big distributor is, you know, maybe the Barnes and Noble, maybe tower record, which, you know, doesn't exist anymore here in the US, but I've seen it in Japan. So hey, you want our record, you can find them there. And, and be ahead of the time, so you need to have some kind of a business mind. Or maybe, maybe you need someone that that has the expertise. So to end this, I mean, I would like to talk about more like how technology is changing the way that somebody is an artist. And maybe I'll have you back if you want to come back to go deeper into this conversation. But to wrap this one here, if you have some advice, maybe for young musicians that are just starting now, you know, you're 15 years old, you get the guitar and want to make a career out of his passion. Looking at what the possibilities are now with technology and web 3.0. I mean, what will be your advice to, to these to these people?
Charles Ellingsen 36:35
Well, if I'm talking to my 15 year old self, say that, but from the future, well, we have made so far, it has been tough the music industry itself. But it's going to get a lot tougher if you don't validate yourself and, and put a price on whatever you do. So well, I did myself a favor and started using African trying to solve the problem with Evie comm. For the future generation generation, learn how to use this new tech. Firstly, it's made by the people, for the people to make sure that everyone is treated fair. And EECOM will be that just that it will be just a middleman, handling your transactions, you get a full overview of whatever, whenever to all artists and event organizers in the world to solve exactly this problem we have discussed today.
Marco Ciappelli 37:44
Cool. All right. So with that in mind, I'm going to wrap this conversation, I want to thank you for being very open and bringing your story to the table. And the reason why you got into this industry and and to talk about where this industry may be going. We didn't talk about online ticket selling and maybe cyber attack and sculpin and how I'm sure that cryptocurrency and crypto contract can avoid also that kind of issue. So again, maybe you'll come back and have another conversation with me. But I hope we made people think I hope we made a young artist. And people that love music to realize that the over the success is really really overnight it it makes me laugh when people are like, Oh, he just is a overnight success. Now this person has been working really hard on his art for many, many years. And then eventually, if you get that break, it seems like you've just made it but this is people that put blood and sweat and tears in what they love. So big appreciation for that. And I think it will be just fair that they get the right amount of compensation out of that. So anything that comes to help that it's welcome and I I invite everybody to check the notes on this redefining society podcast, because there will be a way to connect with Charles and maybe you have some ideas, maybe you have some questions and learn a little bit more about what is is doing and if you have some comments, or musician you have your opinion on this or you're a technologist and you love music and you have other ideas that can go together with this, please leave a comment. And I'll pass it to Charles and you can you can try to to answer that. I'm sure it will love that. So thank you very much, Charles.
39:46
Thank you, Marco. Thank you for having me.
Marco Ciappelli 39:48
It was a pleasure. Take care.
Charles Ellingsen 39:51
You too.