Marco Ciappelli looks into the evolution and future of smart cities with Jennifer Sanders and talk about Smart City Expo World Congress 2023 in Barcelona.
Guest: Jennifer Sanders, Co-Founder and Executive Director at NTXIA [@NTXIA_]
On Linkedin | https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferhsanders/
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Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast & Audio Signals Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
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Episode Notes
As urban landscapes continue to evolve, the world's gaze is fixed on the potential of smart cities. The Smart City Expo World Congress stands as a testament to this interest, connecting global leaders, innovative companies, and forward-thinking organizations. The aim? To collaboratively move cities towards a brighter, more sustainable future. In this episode of the "Redefining Society Podcast" on ITSP Magazine, Marco Ciappelli engages in a riveting conversation with Jennifer Sanders, founder of the North Texas Innovation Alliance. They discuss the intertwining roles of technology, society, and politics in shaping the cities of tomorrow.
While many might nostalgically think of the Jetsons when envisioning the future, the reality of smart cities is far more complex and intertwined with our daily lives. As urban areas house an increasing majority of the world's population, understanding the trajectory of these cities becomes paramount. Jennifer Sanders, with her extensive experience in consulting, innovation alliances, and regional planning, offers valuable insights. She emphasizes the importance of thinking both globally and hyper-locally, underscoring the need for communities to work from the ground up, ensuring a quality of life that resonates with every individual.
As technology continues to redefine the boundaries of our world, this episode sheds light on the balance between individual deep interactions and broader global engagements. It's a balance of hyperlocal focus and global vision, reminding us that every piece is essential in crafting the world we aspire to inhabit.
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Resources
NTXIA: https://www.ntxia.org/
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[00:00:00] Marco Ciappelli: Hello everybody, this is Marco Ciappelli, another episode of Redefining Society podcast here on ITSP Magazine, where we talk about cybersecurity, technology, society, which as I often say nowadays, it's pretty much everything. So, uh, I just did a good excuse to have a good conversation and honestly, I needed no excuse to have this one because we're going to talk about something I'm extremely Passionate about it.
And it's still something that I, despite all these years, I still would like to understand where we're going with this. And I'm talking about the Jetsons. Uh, no, I mean, the Smart Cities that I thought it was going to be the Jetsons, the TV show, but it never happened. At least not that way. And today to talk about that, we have Jan Sanders, which is actually the founder of the North Texas Innovation Alliance.
We are connected. Also, to talk a little bit about this big expo happening in Barcelona in a very few days, or maybe when I publish that it's already happened, but you know, around these days. And so there is a lot to talk about. It's smart cities is where we live, at least most of the population and something that we want to understand.
So I hope Chen will help us. doing that. Jen, thank you for coming to the show.
[00:01:23] Jennifer Sanders: Thank you so much for having me. I get to talk about one of my favorite things as well.
[00:01:27] Marco Ciappelli: Perfect. So we definitely not going to run out of topics, but what I would like to start with is, uh, who is Jen?
[00:01:36] Jennifer Sanders: Oh, gosh, where should we begin now?
Well, it's it's again. It's a pleasure to speak with you today. And, you know, as as we talked about in the pre show for the audience is our backgrounds and kind of the social sciences, public affairs, political science. And so, really, my background is in consulting around those areas. And looking at different clients and really trying to understand, again, what, how do our decisions ultimately impact society?
Where are we really trying to go outside of the nuts and bolts of how we get there? And so after coming out of consulting in 2015, I co founded the Dallas Innovation Alliance, which is another nonprofit consortium that's meant to operate inside and outside the city because we can do things that aren't possible inside of city government to try and move more quickly.
Had some really great success there and were able to be very supportive of the city and our partners. And in 2019, we launched the North Texas Innovation Alliance. We always knew we needed to go regional because human impact doesn't stop at jurisdictional boundaries and Dallas Fort Worth particularly.
Almost 40 percent of our residents cross at least one county line every day. And so we know we need things to work.
[00:02:48] Marco Ciappelli: I love that you said that. And this is where we're going to start with our, let's say, sociological background. Because nowadays, when I think about the world, I think about a global...
Economy and global communication. It's the, the global village, the Marshall McLuhan one that actually did happen in, in larger scale. But I still think that the community are at the core of who we are. I mean, there is so much that as individual, we can interact at a deeper level, but there is also. a lot that we can interact at a global level.
So that balance there, I feel like what you said, I could start with this. What's your take on that?
[00:03:35] Jennifer Sanders: No, I, I completely agree. And it's interesting. There's, there's obviously a lot going, going on in the world today. That's, that's posing a lot of challenges and at a minimum, really causing some, some paralysis at the individual level in terms of.
What do we do? How do we help? What does this all mean? And I have a friend that's involved in in global affairs, you know And so she's frequently traveling and I actually spoke with her the other day and I just said how are you doing? You know and she was talking about that and then she said how are you doing?
How do you cope? And I said I focus on what I what I had can have control over or at minimum impact which is locally So I tend to look at the hyper local and what can we do together? Individually, as global citizens, um, to make change from the bottom up, because really that's, that's where it all happens.
That's where that quality of life component is anchored so that then we can, we can broaden and all work together. So I really start focused hyperlocal and, and bridge out through partnerships and she's really focused on, on the macro, but I think it takes. Every piece of that to create the world that we all want to live in.
[00:04:41] Marco Ciappelli: Absolutely. So what the organization does is connecting all of this, which we hope we can connect to the global level, which is much harder, but maybe at the local. You can, you can put together politicians and regulators and companies and, and the citizen, I'm assuming. So how, what's the magic formula there, if there is one?
[00:05:07] Jennifer Sanders: I, I think it's, you know, in large measure, exactly what you described is how do we get everyone in a room, you know, as a, as a nonprofit consortium model. I always say that. to folks. I said, I'm not getting rich off of this. My goal is bigger. It's to bring people together in a neutral, independent way. And so we're made up at this point of over 40 individual entities, and those do range from residents to nonprofits to cities, counties, agencies.
The private sector, academic sector from K through 12 through postdoc. And so what we're really trying to do is get people in a room that may not have been in the same room. Um, it, you know, prior to that, but really what we know and what you alluded to is you can start with one focus area, but really they are so interrelated now that we really need the perspectives of all of those different disciplines to come together to find the best possible solution.
So what we try and do is create those organic collisions and conversation. We try to create opportunities to educate. We know that cities and public entities, particularly, they don't, uh, ever come to me and say, gosh, I have too much money and too much time, you know, to solve some of these problems. Um, and so how can we be.
Kind of that cog in the wheel or that subject matter expert that can connect these dots and help create the solutions or the perspectives that there just isn't time, you know, in the day to day life to get there. So we're trying to break silos, um, both within departments, between organizations, between sectors.
To try and again, find the commonalities that get us to that North Star faster. So that's, that's a little bit of the magic of what, what we hope to do and certainly have had some, some great outcomes since we were founded.
[00:06:53] Marco Ciappelli: So talking about that, uh, I think I can say and you can say the word smart city and a bunch of people are gonna Think about something different.
It could be a great tabletop game to play, right? So even agree on that, it could be, it could be a challenge. So let's start with your vision. If I ask you, I don't know what a smart city is. What is for you a smart city?
[00:07:23] Jennifer Sanders: Now, you know, a hundred percent. And that was the most important thing we did at the inset is say, how do we come together and rally around one definition?
And that definition isn't singularly focused on technology, and so what we, what we do is we look at that holistic approach, but the definition we work from is a smart city finds that intersection point between community data and technology to improve quality of life, economic opportunity and resource efficiencies, and so we're really looking at the end game is how do we use technology and data as a catalyst to get people in communities and systems to where they need to be for us to Remain competitive and have all of the opportunities that The world in the digital world, you know, more and more so can offer.
[00:08:11] Marco Ciappelli: And where do you feel we are? Let's talk about your geographic area, which is Dallas and Texas, which we're not talking about the small place. It could be very much representative of any other large city in the U S or Singapore or Sydney, Australia, wherever. Where do you feel we are in terms of what is more cities is it, could you consider one of these big city or small city like peach tree corner?
It's, I was talking to the CEO there and, and he was like, well, we can do here at a small city. It's not possible maybe to do, I mean, if you want to experiment the way we're doing it, it's probably easier in a small town that is thought based on that than taking San Francisco maybe or Dallas or Florence, Italy, where I'm from, was design for horses and carriage and, and what would we do there?
Where are we now for a city like Dallas or any other Houston in Texas, in terms of a smart city?
[00:09:26] Jennifer Sanders: So, so I think when we began, we looked, we looked to Europe quite a bit and certainly Asia. Um, but one of the benefits that we, or one of the catalysts we, we saw and deduced from Europe specifically is the age of the cities.
So the challenges that we were facing or we're starting to face in Dallas, a much younger city, as it relates to aging infrastructure and different needs of the community and of buildings. Europe, you know, was up against that, you know, in those decision points and using these new tools. We've learned a great deal just kind of as a as a first point of reference.
From from those that came before us and that's always the hope is what we learn. Can then be passed down, but I think the current state of smart cities, you know, and Brandon and Peachtree Corners. It's it's a great It's a great point to raise if it's a newer city. So you have more greenfield, if it's a smaller city, often they can move more quickly, and they've done an incredible job with leveraging their strengths.
The government has been extraordinarily involved in ways that a lot of governments don't, um, because of the complexity of it. So I think that the, I think that the secret sauce in, in Peachtree and Curiosity Labs is something that already is highly sought after to replicate and certainly has been and should be.
So I think there's benefits to, you know, smaller communities and we, we certainly see that within our region as well. Some of the smaller cities are doing. Some of the most, I'd say, pragmatically innovative things because it's not all, it's not all flying cars, right? In terms of where you need to start.
But I think that. I don't think that there is. I don't think that there's a city, maybe in the world, but certainly in the U. S. that I would say they have fully realized the vision of smart city because there's so many pieces that come into it. So there's cities that I think do mobility incredibly well or data incredibly well, um, and and.
Electrification, you know, Tyler at the Colorado Smart Cities Alliance and the work that they're doing on electrification is extraordinarily impressive. And so I think in North Texas, in Texas specifically, I think that there's a lot of pieces that are being deployed. I think that the way broadband infrastructure and connectivity to internet, which there's a huge gap nationally and certainly in North Texas.
we long pressuring ourselves and making them scary systemic capabilities um, I don't know whether I want to continue that conversation and lastly, I think is just um,
I think that there are pieces that have incredible momentum, and I think that the big point within our membership is we really look at our members as being able to informally mentor each other because we're all again trying to get to a unified, cohesive region that has Interoperability, you know, in shared standards.
So these systems and these investments can work seamlessly across those investments. Jurisdictionally, I'll take a breath there.
[00:12:39] Marco Ciappelli: No, I was going to let you go because you were already answering questions before I asked them. So that's that's great. That makes a great guest. I want to go a little bit deeper.
In what you said, because I always think about the people listening or watching the audience. So they live in a city, they go around and I always like the example of what's on stage and what's backstage, right? Um, or let's say you go to Disneyland and everything is just perfect out there maybe, but you don't realize how much happened behind the scene.
So. Me as a citizen not knowing anything about it. How do I spot a smart city? Yeah, let's play the game
[00:13:29] Jennifer Sanders: No, it's it really is kind of a where's Waldo, isn't it? I think You know and that's and that's something so so our first project in 2016 was we called it the smart cities living lab and it was Um, a six block corridor in a historic part of downtown and one thing that was really important because of exactly what you said is we need to make sure that there are some highly visible, you know, installations or projects that we do, because otherwise anyone we take down to tour anytime we're trying to educate.
The public on what this is and what it's doing, you very few of these, these smart elements are visible. They're not gaudy. They're not flying. They're not, um, you know, they're, they're not immediately visible. And so we had to mix up those things that you can point to like a kiosk, um, environmental sensors.
In some cases, we turned a parking lot into a park that had a lot of smart elements. So a lot of opportunities for education, but what we hope is. That you don't have to see things to feel the impact in your life. So we talk about things like when we're explaining to residents why all this money is being spent on upgrading the traffic signals.
In large measure, it's so their commute is shorter, so the idling time is shorter, so the emissions are lessened. And so what we hope is that people notice it in their quality of life by saying, gosh, my commute is now seven minutes shorter. I'm not sure why that happened, but what we know is that it's these, these smart.
Um, smart city technologies that are really enabling again, the improvement of quality of life. So, in some cases, you got to have something to point to that's really, really obvious, but in other ways, you know, I'll just say, I don't mind if people don't know what it is. I just want them to to really have that recognition of something.
[00:15:18] Marco Ciappelli: And in a way, we go back to the beginning when I said everybody's going to think about a smart city as something different because maybe someone is more driven by environmental changes, wants to see more greens, they want to see more solar panel and electrification, they want to see more recharge for smart cities.
Electric cars. Someone else may, yeah, may want to get to work faster. May want to have a better, uh, transportation system. And others just don't see it. So, but you kind of have to show and tell because that's where the money goes, right, from the citizen too. So I understand that.
[00:16:04] Jennifer Sanders: Well, and to your point, even if they don't know that they care about a specific thing, kind of at an institutional level, What we always try and look at is what, you know, we do a lot of resident surveys, you know, before we plan projects and, and say, what is, what is, what are the biggest pain points?
What are you most concerned about? And, uh, and a lot, you know, a lot of people in groups do that. What we're looking for are things like the, my energy bills, you know, so we'll look at things like that. And then you kind of back into what's going to help solve for that for a resident. And it might be teaching them how to, you know, individually at a residential level, what tools can they use.
It might be something much broader. My power always goes out. Is this a grid issue or is this something else? But, you know, they, they just know that they're cold. Or they just know that they're, they're at risk. And so that's where things like microgrids, you know, come into play. Or extra battery storage. Or that vehicle to infrastructure.
Vehicle to building. Bidirectional charging. So there's, we have so many tools at our disposal right now. But how do we make sure that we're solving the right problems? That actually help the people that we serve, because it's not going to be universal across all geographies as, as you know, that's the other complication of how you make those decisions.
[00:17:19] Marco Ciappelli: And that's another great point. There is technology for pretty much everything nowadays. We're getting to maybe even better. CO2 absorption or anything like that, but also you say you don't have that problem Where somebody comes to you and say I really don't know what to do with my budget.
It's just like Just sitting there. I just found the treasure So, how do you prioritize? Is it something that you do by looking at what other people have done successfully? people. Municipality have done successfully. How do you manage to decide if we have this much money, this is where it's going to go?
I
[00:17:59] Jennifer Sanders: think, and I often joke, things get above my pay grade very quickly. You know, so we're, we're, we're trying to do all of the upfront research and commit. So we're basically trying to develop, here's the best practice on a platter and say. You decide if this is where the budget should go. I just want to be very clear.
I'm writing no big checks. That'd be nice though. Um, but so, you know, so I think 1 is, you know, constantly getting a temperature check on what's most important to to those municipalities. We have, you know, a really strong, I call it the smart city family, you know, so relationships with. Probably a hundred cities around the world at this point, so we're always learning from each other and I can always pick up the phone and call, call Brandon or call David Graham and Carlsbad or whomever and just say, I remember this project you did, did that work?
Do you think that that is something that should be replicated? And, and then you can really try and put those pieces together. And we always look at, um, what is the readiness of a city at the beginning? So if, um, you know, a city council member comes to me and says. I just want X. And I say, first, you need to invest in these pieces of the stack from a data analytics standpoint or something.
I said, we don't, we don't yet have the foundation to just deploy that, but here's what we could do in short order to get, get some impact that maybe would justify the level of investment to really modernize some of the systems that have to be done first. And those are probably the least sexy, you know, projects from that perspective, because those are definitely ones that the public.
Does not see, you know, all of the guts of data storage. And are we moving to cloud and what does the 5g look like? And is that a place to invest? So I think, um, in terms of prioritizing, we also. Look at things like bonds that are already in planning mode and the city of Dallas has a big one that's going to the ballot for capital projects next year.
And so we look at things like, you know, it looks like this much money is going to streets. Well, we're at it. Have you thought about incorporating these technologies because it would be much, much more efficient to do this at the same time? Is that something where we can find some extra funding or another?
Another example that I really love that we've been putting together is around the World Cup. And so this is obviously the biggest thing to happen in a very long time in terms of the impact of the sporting event in the U. S. is. So thrilled to have so many of the matches and certainly Dallas, um, is raring to go and what that means in planning for large scale events like this is a lot of investment to make sure everything goes smoothly.
And so what we really have done so far is got a roundtable together of a lot of stakeholders and said, what are you most concerned with? And can we put an innovation lens around the planning for these projects that we need to do? And can we make sure that those projects and their impacts will benefit the region long after this event happens?
So if there's something that the transportation planner in a city said, I've always wanted to do this, or I've been begging to do this project for years, is something like the World Cup, the momentum that that has enough backing behind it to be able to get that done, you know, for multiple reasons. But how do we make sure investments are really ultimately serving the public long after the.
[00:21:28] Marco Ciappelli: I have to say that as an Italian, I have seen projects done and then said, uh, that station that you see there was made for the World Cup in, uh, I don't even remember when it was or Olympic game in Rome and, and then, uh, and then it's sitting there like a ghost. Station where a ghostly train arrives and all the money is put it there.
So I want to talk about that, about how long ahead you have to think. Because people may think, Oh, yeah, sure. Let's let's implement this infrastructure all on your horses, right? I mean, it's not easy. Start digging in an old town in, uh, in Europe. And, uh, you. You know, the Beleaști are gonna
[00:22:19] Jennifer Sanders: find either, right?
Is that the place we thought it was? Is that map even accurate? We haven't gone down there in so long. Oh yeah.
[00:22:28] Marco Ciappelli: So let's talk about what is feasible from a technology perspective? And what is feasible now? And what is feasible in 20 years? Because you can't just flip on a dime and make it happen. And so I'm, I'm connecting to let's have a long term goal here and prove to the stakeholders and the citizen that remember what we did two years ago and now this is what we're doing now.
It's still going in that direction and the overall result is going to be that because I think that's, that's the trick of politics.
[00:23:12] Jennifer Sanders: It is and getting things. Getting things done that take longer than an election cycle to re to fully realize is, is a challenge. And, and, and I can certainly understand that and, and understand both sides of that, but to your point, that's why the short, mid, and long-term vision is so important because you have to have wins that you can see in six months, 12 months, 18 months, two years.
And so really mapping that out without getting, without getting bogged down in the block and tackle the short term. is that it's, it's obviously a massive challenge or we wouldn't be talking about it. But I think what are those quick wins? Those are things that, you know, you have the backbone to do already.
And so I think you see that with a lot of different drone type deployments and applications. And we've got some stories we can talk about later around that as well. But I think. If you're looking at public safety applications, if you're looking at how do you use camera systems that you already have in place that do have the ability to now incorporate Other functions.
So I think, again, I think that there's things to do short term. Um, I think there's things like curb management. You know, there's a lot of talk about the traffic around, um, ride share. You know, how are you going to accommodate in a dense area? Not having that contribute greatly to the congestion. How are people going?
How are you managing people movement from a safety perspective and a quality of experience? Um, and I think that those types of things can be piloted very quickly, and you wait 90 days and you see how the residents respond. You see, is it doing what it's meant to do, then you're ready to roll that out monstrously, you know, across a much larger area.
So, I think, again, it's, it's a mix of what do we know we can do quickly, but make sure it still fits into that longer term plan. But the capital projects that take 20 years, um, here's my other soapbox, you know, we're, we're in Texas, and cars are, you know, Cars are dominant here, you know, as opposed to other forms of transportation and in order to get, in order to get the will to not build those extra lanes of traffic, there's a lot of other factors at play that need to come into play.
And I think I have a friend that worked for the Rocky Mountain Institute and a number of other research areas in mobility for years and years. And one of the things that she shared with me, she's like, I just feel like we're thinking about this all wrong in terms of how do you get people out of your car?
She said, it's behavioral economics. not direct, you know, pl and then we'll buy free l whatever point or there's But she said it's a long Behavioral economic cycle is the way we really need to be looking at this and not just improvements and for structurally because there's it's so ingrained and so again with the plug for the social science as well as how are we looking at that gradual shift in behavior and openness, which then leads to support politically to continue down the path of something that is going to take.
10 or 20 years.
[00:26:15] Marco Ciappelli: It's complicated. I'm, I live in LA, so you want to talk about cars?
[00:26:23] Jennifer Sanders: It is wild. Yeah.
[00:26:24] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I don't know if I've seen any smart, uh, 405 yet, but that's a different story. Maybe there is.
[00:26:32] Jennifer Sanders: 405 years. Yeah, I know. I know. I know. I know. C dot in L. A. D. O. T. R. doing some really wonderful things.
Oh, no, no. Your point. It just takes time, though, you know, and I know you weren't saying that, but it just it really
[00:26:46] Marco Ciappelli: especially especially that it goes in in proportion to the size. Of Right. The urban area you're dealing with. Thank you. Let's talk, uh, I wanna talk about data, but I feel like that could be a conversation on its own.
So I don't want to go there, I don't want to open that can of data , you know, knowing where it goes. Let's talk about the expo in Barcelona 2023, which is happening in, in a short amount of time, but also there is. There's going to be, I believe, one in New York in 2024, and the organizers are really bringing it around the world, which is great, because it should be like that.
What do you expect from a huge event like that? And why is that important? Uh, different organization like yours go there, technology company go there and display their product, their innovation, and why do we do this and why it's important.
[00:27:50] Jennifer Sanders: So many reasons, and I'll tell you every year when I, when I tell people I'm going on a work trip to Barcelona, they feel like a big jerk saying something like that.
Um, and, and I say it really is. So high value beyond obviously it being a lovely place to visit because there's so many peers, you know, there are so many countries, there are so many cities that have such a strong presence there for us to learn from and understand what's working. And I don't think I've been to a conference outside of this one that has a heavier proportion of public sector booths at the expo, which is, which is one fascinating and so helpful for us.
In relationships and learning, and then coupling that with the companies that are based around the world that we may not be aware of or solutions that we may not know about. So it's, you know, number one, learning number two, new partnerships, um, three, we, we want to come back with a lot of ideas with new people that can help, um, and fulfilling them.
And this year, particularly, we really want to look at how do we empower more international companies and fast growth or startup companies to come and test. In North Texas, we really wanna, we, we have a really strong environment in different, you know, facilities or complexes or support organizations that we, we really think that, that, that cross border, you know, is, is a, is a really strong selling point for the region, and we certainly learn and wanna grow that way too.
This is kind of the perfect pool to swim in, if you will.
Mm-Hmm. , I wanna take advantage of having you here, which it, you're not necessarily. Just a technical person. You understand the technology, but you're like me. You put it in perspective. So the testing part. We look at the news and I love news, but sometimes I feel like they're not helping.
Sorry journalists out there. San Francisco testing , all the cars. It's always the bad news. I've been there. It's kind of cool. Let's go, go around. I'm excited to try one. Still hasn't happened for me, but I feel like it's also really hard to test. Cars in San Francisco. It's hard to drive in San Francisco.
I drive from L. A. there. It's, uh, it's wonderful, but it's a challenge already. So you're choosing a very challenging city to do that. I feel like if an autonomous vehicle is going to make it in San Francisco, probably going to make it in a lot of other U. S., at least U. S. cities. But on one side, you have the people that don't want to change.
That don't realize that, one little accident, it's only one versus a gazillion of accident that happen every day with people driving and getting distracted. And it's, we had this conversation a lot, but from your perspective, I think that, or at least I hear that technology could be there safe, safe enough to be deployed, but um, We need the political okay to do it.
And that probably applies to a lot of things. Do we have older mentality here? Um, an ancient mentality to do new things?
I, you know what? I think it's less of an older mentality and just. It's the human nature to be afraid of change, you know, I think, I don't think it's, it's generational as much as it's, it's, it's purely human nature.
I think some of the, the reasons for hesitation might look a little bit different, but, um, that is why testing is so important. I bet, you know. Testing in a vacuum can only happen for, for so long. We talk about what is it pilot paralysis, I think, and then how do you get it to shift beyond there? And so I think closed, you know, closed environments are such an important place to start.
And then it's about how do you get into the public right of way, you know, the publicly owned infrastructure. You know, after a university campus testing is successful, as an example, or an industrial complex, are, are we ready? I think I applaud the companies that are saying, you know what, we're ready. We're just going to go to San Francisco or to Austin or to Dallas and just and just go learn and be able to have that visibility and.
Those learnings 'cause that that's a, that that's an aggressive jump, you know, from controlled testing. And so I think, you know, to, to your point, it's, it's how are we making sure that the, the stories about the benefits, um, come into play and, and really put putting, everything has to be put into context.
'cause to, to your point, you know, only focusing on the negative, which goes far beyond technology is, is not going to. to prove out anything successfully in terms of how most travels. Um, so again, it's, it's, it's pragmatic risk being taken, you know, and certainly autonomous vehicles are allowed in the state of Texas.
Um, but are you creating that dedicated lane? Is it about starting from, we're, we're still going to do a test environment that has a very small public right of way corridor? How much public engagement are we doing before? Anything, steps, wheels on the road, you know, in a certain place. So I think, I think there's, there's a lot of, a lot of steps there and a willingness for risk.
So much of it is about what is the approach prior to, prior to actually deploying that. And that's, that's the case with a lot of technology. We could talk about facial recognition. We could talk about all kinds of things that really require a longer period than I think people realize you need to really be able to.
To create awareness and education around the how and the why and the what of doing something new. So that's, that's where I'm really, you know, heavily passionate about is what kind of commitments need to be made to residents from the standpoint of when new technology comes into place so they feel comfortable and that, um, that this is for their benefit and why.
[00:34:13] Marco Ciappelli: Right. Well, we're going to leave it there because again, there's so much we can talk about
[00:34:19] Jennifer Sanders: it's done already. Oh, my word.
[00:34:21] Marco Ciappelli: We're done. It's 35 minutes almost. And, uh, and it's not that I want to stop it. But I think there's a lot to digest there. I think we cover a lot of ground. I think the people listening right now, they probably have a lot of questions.
So I let it I'd rather let it hang in there and not try to answer to everything and, uh, and maybe I'll have you back and we can talk about some more specific, even the data and the privacy and that side of things, but I want to thank you very much for giving this, uh, 101 of How complicated things are when you put together people, politics, technology, regulation, and psychology as well.
So I want to let everybody know that they can find all the links to you and your organization in the notes of this podcast. I invite everybody to subscribe for many more stories. I invite you to come back anytime you want to. Maybe you'll come back and tell us about the Expo. How about that?
[00:35:23] Jennifer Sanders: Yes, I'd be delighted in any, any viewers that are, that are going to be there, uh, where we have a booth at the U. S. Pavilion. We would love to have, you know, come learn more about our organization, and we have four cities in North Texas that also are going to be coming this year. It's the biggest North Texas takeover.
So far in Barcelona. So we're very excited to to share more.
[00:35:45] Marco Ciappelli: Very cool. So everybody's gonna be there. It's not just the city. It's also what's what's happening there. Well, thank you again. And, uh, everybody stay tuned for more story. And I know what we'll talk way more about smart cities because because I like it.
So why not?
[00:36:08] Jennifer Sanders: You're the boss.
[00:36:10] Marco Ciappelli: I hope I make decision for what interest in the audience as well. Thank you again. Goodbye everybody. Stay tuned I'll see you soon