In this episode of the High Alert Institute podcast series, we introduce their work with NASA for space healthcare and AI medicine, including the need for an autonomous AI system that would provide guidance and care needed in non-Earth civilizations and habitats. They also explore how this AI system would interact and coordinate with human doctors in space.
Guests
Allison A. Sakara, Executive Director, High Alert Institute [@High-Alert-Inst]
On ITSPmagazine | http://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/allison-a-sakara
Dr. Maurice A Ramirez, Founder and President, High Alert Institute [@High-Alert-Inst]
On ITSPmagazine | http://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/dr-maurice-a-ramirez
Sean Martin, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast [@RedefiningCyber]
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/sean-martin
Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
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Episode Introduction
Guests
Allison A. Sakara, Executive Director, High Alert Institute [@High-Alert-Inst]
On ITSPmagazine | http://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/allison-a-sakara
Dr. Maurice A Ramirez, Founder and President, High Alert Institute [@High-Alert-Inst]
On ITSPmagazine | http://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/dr-maurice-a-ramirez
Sean Martin, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast [@RedefiningCyber]
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/sean-martin
Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
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This Episode’s Sponsors
Bugcrowd 👉 https://itspm.ag/itspbgcweb
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Episode Introduction
"In this episode of the High Alert Institute podcast series, we introduce their work with NASA for space healthcare and AI medicine, including the need for an autonomous AI system that would provide guidance and care needed in non-Earth civilizations and habitats. They also explore how this AI system would interact and coordinate with human doctors in space."
Welcome to the third episode of the High Alert Institute podcast series. In case you missed the previous episodes, we highly recommend that you catch up with them, as we've had some fascinating conversations on the work that the High Alert Institute is doing to help society. In this episode, Marco Ciappelli, Dr. Maurice Ramirez, Allison Sakara, and Sean Martin, will be discussing the work the Institute has been doing with NASA for space healthcare and AI medicine.
Their work with NASA started many years ago when the High Alert Institute worked with the government agency for disaster preparedness planning and education. Over time, they were approached by International Space Law experts, who were involved with the International Space Court Foundation, to help with moot courts on space healthcare issues. The Institute's board members and experts were already fans of sci-fi, and this project was a fun and exciting challenge.
As they dug deeper, they found that the regulations that have been in place for space healthcare over the last 60 years, based on cruise ship rules, won't work going forward, especially on the Moon or Mars, where there are no regulations or oversight of who is qualified to practice healthcare. They needed an autonomous AI system to provide the guidance and care needed in non-Earth civilizations and habitats.
In this episode, Maurice, and Allison discuss their findings, including the need for an algorithmic framework for this AI system, which would be satellite-based and would help regulate and transfer data. They also discuss how this AI system would interact and coordinate with human doctors, who would need to be technical people, working the knobs and pulling the levers on the system as well as understanding how the human body functions.
If you're interested in learning more about the relationship between technology and our modern society, we highly recommend that you subscribe to the Redefining Society podcast, hosted by Marco Ciappelli.
Tune in to this episode to learn more about the High Alert Institute's work with NASA for space healthcare and AI medicine, and how they're preparing for the future.
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Resources
High Alert Institute: highalertinstitute.org
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Resources
High Alert Institute: highalertinstitute.org
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Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording as errors may exist. At this time we provide it “as it is” and we hope it can be useful for our audience.
SPEAKERS
Marco Ciappelli, Allison Sakara, Sean Martin , Maurice Ramirez
Marco Ciappelli00:04
Here we go, Sean. Well, thank you for joining me again,
Sean Martin 00:10
I know, this is the third chat. And I'm excited for the culmination of all this because we're talking about being prepared and looking at animals and not looking at them, maybe protecting animals.
Marco Ciappelli00:27
Why not? Why not? Let's look at them.
Sean Martin 00:30
Yeah, we can look at them, hug them and everything. But we're doing that in space. We're going to Mars with our animals today, Marco.
Marco Ciappelli00:39
Wow, yeah, we'll go farming on Mars. But I don't know if this is gonna come up. But, you know, maybe why not? Now, honestly,
Sean Martin 00:48
is it illegal to bring an animal tomorrow?
Marco Ciappelli00:51
Ah, I think we can, we can explore this. This conversation, as you mentioned, Shawn is number three, this is redefining society. And it's actually the beginning of a, what I hope is going to be a really long relationship with our friend at the high alert Institute. And with Maurice, Allison and all the network of the we've been discovering the network of partners and expert that works. The work with them all the time. And again, it's just session. Today, we're gonna probably go in space. And I want to, I don't want to give away too much. But the first two episodes, we talk about what is the high alert Institute, we talk about disaster readiness in education, we talk about animal welfare and environmental interest and all the initiative and program that they have. And that's why we needed three episode just introduce what they do. And without further ado, I would say I'm going to introduce Maurice and Alison, which actually, I would love them to introduce themselves for a couple of minutes, just in case people didn't catch up the other two episodes yet, which is highly, highly recommended. So Maurice, and Alison, thank you for being on with us again.
Allison Sakara02:13
Oh, our pleasure, Marco and Sean. I'll start with myself.
Marco Ciappelli02:18
Yeah, at this point, it's like it's family, right. So, just go, go, we present yourself.
Allison Sakara02:26
You got it. My name is Allison secara. I'm a nurse practitioner by trade. And with the high alert Institute, I have been the Executive Director, since it became a 501, c three and February of 2011. However, we have our roots, going back to the wake of 911, actually, where we began training and education and advocacy for disaster preparedness and response.
Maurice Ramirez02:55
And I'm Maurice Ramirez. I'm an emergency room physician and disaster medicine specialist, as well as an as well as being board certified in AI medicine. And I'm the I serve as the both the co founder and the chairperson of the board for the high alert Institute.
Sean Martin 03:14
Well, it's great, great to hear both of your voices again, and to dig into even more fun things that you get to get to help society with and I mean, everything we've talked about has been super meaningful, and I suspect today's conversation will, will produce the same results. And so I'm gonna who wants to dig in here, but I want to get into some of the work that you're doing with NASA for NASA. Space healthcare, AI informatics, always, as part of the high alert Institute.
Maurice Ramirez03:54
Absolutely, Shawn, we, NASA many, many years ago, when disaster preparedness was, was still an early mandate from the White House from the Bush administration s was actually one of high alert clients for disaster preparedness, planning and education. Since then, the the relationship has has evolved. And it's kind of a funny story. It all started with our mutual friend, and someone who's been on your podcast before Sean case, the CEO of enterprise and space. And as you know, Sean, is is very much a networker. He connects experts to needs experts to other experts who have a have a need or an interest in in common areas. And it underscores the interconnectedness of all people all habitats, that that whole one framework that we've always operated under with the Institute. And many years ago, Sean and I met on LinkedIn. In fact, Sean is who introduced us to both you and Marco Ah, but early in the pandemic, Shawn contacted us in the institute. And he had some he had a small town in Pennsylvania that needed some help with public health messaging. And he had been contacted by some of his friends from the space industry experts in space law, who happened to live in that town and were part of and were part of the COVID response for that community. As we worked with them, and Shawn, for the public health messaging, and Reopenings and reclosing for social isolation, and then Reopenings, again, and mask mandates and, and fate that the town may face shield for healthcare, first responders, so helping them with with those processes. We got to know these two individuals more and learn that they were, as I said, the International Space Law experts, but they were also involved with the International Space court Foundation. And as the conversations grew it, they started asking us about disaster medicine in space, and asking us about real world and other real world, if you will, aspects of space healthcare. And over time, they even asked us if we would be interested in helping with some of the moot courts that the International Space court was planning on holding regarding various space healthcare issues. It sounded like fun. Yeah. And again, as I said, in our in our last session, Allison and I are both Trekkies, number of our board members or our sci fi fans, it sounded like a fun project. And we needed something fun in the middle of, of all the intensity of COVID. So we said sure, and we started looking into it and treating it the way we treat any other project, doing some, some very real research content and reaching into our contact lists, getting with our experts, experts who we knew renewing relationships, and we learned a number of things. One of the one of the things that we learned was that space law was all based in, in just a few treaties and a few textbooks that were written at the beginning of the space race in the 1960s. And that everything had been had been built more or less on that. We also learned that a lot of how space healthcare has been, has been authorized and regulated. Over the last 60 years has been based in the cruise industry, which I learned in Student Council consulted to the cruise industry a number of times. So we were actually very familiar with the laws as they exist today that govern space healthcare.
Sean Martin 07:53
And can I can I interrupt is that is that is that just is that because of the international waters
Maurice Ramirez07:59
Absolutely, it's because the International Waters Treaty, the in, in cruise medicine, I, as an individual provider, can use my Florida license to practice on a ship flag, say and in Bermuda or the Bahamas, as long as that ship is at sea or at port and I am on the ship, but I can't get I can't get off the ship in a foreign country and practice medicine unless I have a license in that foreign country is the basic synthesis of how the international treaties regarding cruise ship, health care work. And that's the mechanism under which space healthcare has generally worked for for physicians or healthcare providers in flight, most healthcare is actually well before the flight here on Earth and performed by experts in aerospace medicine people are board certified specifically for aerospace medicine, and, and and, and the health care of astronauts. But that's not a model that will translate well when we start establishing new jurisdictions on the moon and on Mars, which was the the emphasis for what we were being asked to look at. And so that was that was the first issue is that it what's worked up until now won't work going won't work well going forward. The other deals with as you know, communications times, right now, you have a you have a an expert, flight flight surgeon who is a spaceflight surgeon in mission control at all times. And if there is a healthcare issue on the ISS or in spaceflight communications as a matter of seconds, it's tellement. Yeah, it's it's, it's a it's the progenitor of telemedicine cuz it goes back to the 60s and it is the embodiment of the future of telemedicine to be to be working with that. a healthcare provider in mission control while you're in flight, in near and near Earth light, it doesn't work as well. When you're out to Mars, where the community two way communication can be up to 44 minutes. And there are periods of up to two weeks where their communication blackouts. And then over time, we learned that what these challenges were we also, as we explored the various treaties and authorities, and had opportunities to interview and speak with our our colleagues in licensing boards around the world, that the various national and state licensing boards, both in the United States and abroad, have no interest or intention of extending their authority to the Moon or Mars. They're, they're fine with following the cruise ship rule, if you will, what we call the cruise ship rule for having a physician or a nurse or other health care provider have a license while they're in flight while they're in transit. But once you get to the moon or Mars, if they don't want to extend that authority, that's that's not their area of expertise. And it's not their jurisdiction. And there are international treaties that actually prevent them from extending that authority.
Marco Ciappelli11:20
You're pretty much on your own.
Maurice Ramirez11:23
And you can't practice medicine that way. You can't practice healthcare that way. And, and honestly, you don't want to be someplace where there is no regulation, or oversight of who says they're a doctor, and who's allowed to practice health care, because then there are no standards and and not even a requirement for the proper education.
Marco Ciappelli11:47
Wow, that's incredible. It's sounds like sci fi. But of course, as we often say, it actually is not it sounds like the future. But the future is now I mean, right now is gonna make a joke about there are on Artemis one, there are three mannequins that are probably have more sensors than ever done before to actually start, you're ready. You know how the behavior is on the new on the new rocket and the new capsule that we're using compare with 50 plus years ago, but so I'm interested and probably the audience right now is wondering, what does it mean? And how does it get involved in organization like the high alert Institute to prepare for these, I'm assuming and more in detail. I mean, it seems like so far away, human usually don't worry about things until they happen. But that's your job. Right. So Alison, what's the connection there?
Allison Sakara12:47
Well, the connection is, in my mindset, is that you thought you were talking about science fiction? Well, to me science fiction is just the nonfiction that it hasn't happened yet. In many respects. Yes. How we got all involved with this was the, in reviewing what were the published concepts of operations, that different international space agencies that included NASA put together these these concepts for health care in space. And that's what we were asked to get involved in these concepts, outline what needs will be included to face the challenges that would be anticipated, and how to provide emergent and non emergent health care without as Maurice was talking about the approval or oversight? How does that how to how can you make that work? What are some things that you would have to have in place for that to be a safe and effective thing? Well, these concepts have a whole lot in common with the disaster planning scenarios that we've talked about with you both before. In these concepts, one of the things that was called for was in an autonomous system, a free standing thing of some sort, to provide the guidance for health care that would be needed in non Earth civilizations and habitats. But it does those particular concept documents don't propose or describe fully what that system might be, could be, should be. And so in the process of working with International Space Law Group, we started exploring these documents and trying to address as many of those fill in the blank answers that we could that we could come up with. One of the first things that we needed to do was to look at what Maurice mentioned things about international treaties, what's already been done, what's already been said before. And what we've learned in looking at these doc, all these different documents, is that yes, absolutely spaceflight surgeons and aerospace medicine specialists are already working on those standards of care and board certifications, they're of this has been their specialty and their area of expertise for decades. Wonderful. We also were able to confirm that earth based boards, the terrestrial boards, that license people, Mario said that already mentioned that they are not interested in extending the licensures to moon or to the Mars or to other situations. So all right, so where do we how do we address this problem if that if that's not going to be the case. So we're going to come back to that autonomous healthcare AI, there's already been an ongoing effort to create what would be the algorithmic framework, the programming behind the scenes for this type of AI, artificial intelligence, autonomous healthcare thing. I say thing, because it really hasn't been given a definitive name. And many of the folks involved in that F effort, it turns out we were already involved with because of a co op that we had started several years ago and artificial intelligent Co Op, nonprofits and for profits, getting together to swap ideas and brainstorm and see how we could bring synergy to, to our passions in that particular field. Another thing that we learned is that different space agencies envisioned many similar things that this AI system would be satellite based, and so that actually answer some of the questions that I'm sure Maurice is going to get into, that have come up with so how are you going to regulate and how you're going to deal with the transfer of data, etc, etc. So we're kind of coming to back Marco to the whole sci fi thing in it for anybody who is a Star Trek fan and knows the Voyager series. We're, we're knocking on the door now of the emergency medical hologram doctor.
Marco Ciappelli17:40
I'm wondering if we should call it Al 9000? Or is that bad luck?
Sean Martin 17:47
let's call it Sal.
Marco Ciappelli17:48
No, no, sorry Dave.
Sean Martin 17:54
I'm picturing I mean, use the word thing, Allison. And, and that strikes me because I mean, what we're talking about here is something performing some actions on some other thing being human or otherwise, I suspect. And I'm wondering how that I mean, I'm just picturing this environment and the doctors seem to need to be technicians, technical people, almost kind of working, working the knobs and pulling the levers on the systems as much as understanding how the human body functions as well on the mind and everything else. So how, how does AI not be on its own but actually, interacting coordinate with the humans that with the doctors?
Maurice Ramirez18:48
Well, Shawn, actually, that was something that that the AI Co Op and individual members within the co op we're already working on, on a terrestrial basis. There has been a movement in AI healthcare for about the last five years to create a dissent, what was what is referred to in the community as a decentralized artificial intelligence, healthcare database, based on a blockchain often system that would look at medical records and term and and evaluate what is the best therapies, given a given individual patient demographics and environments and work habits and even preferences and, and and scent and, and emotional sentiments. But they run into a number of problems. The first two are privacy laws like GDPR and HIPAA. Which which which have baked into most electronical, electronic medical records, the inability to compare records, even at an even with AI, and that was one of those Two things that is solved when you place the AI servers in orbit when you place them in international waters. One of the other one of the other big issues that that comes up our data boundaries, okay, great, I can do this, let's say I figure out a way around HIPAA, or I figure out a way to comply with hippies, you don't really find a way around it. But unless you like orange jumpsuits, but you find a way to comply with HIPAA. And you get the electronic medical record manufacturers to give you the necessary access, because now you're HIPAA compliant. And you get all kinds of information about the United States. But you need information in all the other major electronic medical records players worldwide, because you don't want a system that discriminates against particular cultural groups or ancestral groups, or genetic groups that exist around the world, you want a real picture of what is human healthcare on a global basis. And that was the second big stumbling block to implementing a decentralized global AI, a gentleman by the name of Catherine Gregory cardiologist, in fact, in 2017, published a, a model for such a system he called it's six layer, or six level healthcare AI. And the idea was that one of the solutions for privacy would be to get give each and every one of us our own AI engine, our own AI healthcare representative, if you will, our healthcare advocate somebody or an electronic somebody, an AI that would evaluate how different objectively evaluate how different therapies were working for us individually. And that then we would, as individual patients authorized or enable that, that AI to share that information at a machine learning level, no personal information shared with other API's, so that the greater healthcare community could learn from the experience of every individual patient, over time with every individual therapy and diagnosis. And that kind of big data, massive data when you're talking about nearly 9 billion people worldwide, yeah, 6 billion of which are in some way or another in an electronic record for health care. That kind of data would be then available to inform and assist individual providers to make the best choices given their individual patients circumstances. That was the goal and is still is the goal of of healthcare AI. In when you apply that to space, what we call an AI based inter global medical experts system, it's possible for the system to not only advise but even suggest, both diagnoses and therapies based on enough if it's given enough information based on individual patient needs. And then, the various space agencies in the event of a space disaster, the loss of health care providers at an individual habitat. They were looking for something that could autonomously as Allison said, not only initiate care during the disaster. So start care or recommend care that could be done by bystanders in the same way that CPR is is constructed over the phone by 911 operators, but also handle the everyday healthcare needs until a new health care provider a human health care provider could arrive at at a particular habitat on Mars or on the moon. And that kind of a system is the what has been envisioned by Katzenberg as level six healthcare AI fully autonomous, capable of of initiating not only a diagnosis level five, but initiating a treatment without human oversight or consultation level six
Marco Ciappelli24:19
Wow. And we still have not autonomous car a level five or whatever that is that they can actually drive themselves because we haven't agreed on that. So now we're talking about all of these in space. But you know, I'm gonna go a little bit wild sci fi here because I just can't not think about that because I'm envisioning this colony or you know, whatever we want to call it. I don't like the term colonization of another planet because it just remind me about things that happen on this planet. But you know, bringing human societies let's say on other are planets and you like, but it becomes more of a necessity because they are not options. I mean, you mentioned until the doctor arrived, we're not talking about, you know, an ambulance to get there in five minutes or even an hour we're talking about it cannot arrive for four months, if we're talking about more, so how, how tough it is. And maybe that's where the high alert Institute and holism maybe you have something to say about this. How easy is to make people imagine and project all of these when they have no concrete example of what, you know if there is an earthquake. So you know, we've seen it happen. So this is what you need to do. But it's so abstract when you're in a weird space. So either or, I just curious to know, how difficult is to put everybody's together here
Allison Sakara25:59
to put everybody's ideas together?
Marco Ciappelli26:02
…no, to get concrete. Right. Yeah, to gather ideas, but also to get to the point where regulation are accepted, are redacted are enforced, you know, on something that is so not there yet, and yet, we're talking about it
Maurice Ramirez26:27
Well, I'm gonna jump in Marco real quick. Sure. One of the thing is that we're not the only pui Sean Allison aren't the only people who have that sci fi vision. So a lot of getting that initial awareness and buy in and, and participation in developing these kinds of regulations, or regulatory frameworks, we're not really writing the regulations not are not our place or authority is to is to find the like minded people, people who are already thinking about these ideas from different aspects from aspects within healthcare aspects within the law, aspects of of artificial intelligence, and aspects of ethics, and diversity and inclusion.
Marco Ciappelli27:12
No, I agree with that. And I understand that I guess more my specific question was, when you turn it into law, like, you know, you go to Congress, you go to the European community, or whatever, the European Plus America plus the I don't know, the world community that has to decide about what's going on on Mars, but who will makes this rule? And I can see that there are a lot of very good, that'd be easy, you know, I'd love for you to make the rule. At least you know, what you're talking about, you know, enough. I mean, we're having this problem in, in politicians nowadays, and I don't want to be polemic. I'm just starting to raise the point here, to regulate something that they just don't understand that is not here yet. That is what you see what I'm saying?
Maurice Ramirez28:12
Yes, I do. Part of the answer is in the international treaties for the peaceful, the peaceful use and exploration of space. By international treaty, no earthly jurisdiction can extend their authority to to a another celestial body to the moon or to Mars. Now, it's different if you're a ship free floating in space, you're in international waters, you're under the flag of the country, of origin for your, for your ship, even if you're a private space company, you have a flag on the side on the side of your ship or and that that flag that you fly is the jurisdiction that you're under the laws that you follow. But once you land and become a habit, a an independent jurisdiction and habitation. For instance, you harvest a crop, you manufacture your own food, there are a number of international treaty criteria that make you an independent jurisdiction. You're no longer under the flag of that country, where you started from on Earth, you now have to, you now have to legislate vote in your own set of of laws and rules. And that has to be done at that at that habitation. I highlight Institute. We don't refer to colonies, either we refer to habitats and habitations. Yes, so, you know that jurisdiction may extend 100 kilometers in every direction around your your habitat, the actual structure, but that's your that's your jurisdiction and the the various inhabitants of that jurisdiction in a democratic model will vote on the on the on their representatives, or directly vote on on the laws and regulations. And of course, you don't want to spend the next 20 years writing them, what you want to do is arrive with frameworks and examples, templates that you can use. And that's what the International Space court foundation is working on is creating these these various types of templates and, and, and, and examples, so that a new, a new jurisdiction on the moon or on Mars can effectively pull it off the shelf, ratify it and have a full set of societal guidelines laws, what we call laws and regulations for safety. The big deal is we want to make certain that medical care health care, and the devices that we use for health care, including autonomous AI, are safe, and, and effective, but primarily that they're safe. And,
Sean Martin 30:55
I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to jump here in a moment reason I want to talk about the maybe this concept of safety devices in and humans doing things. I'm just picturing doctors having to train on new ways to treat patients. One, there are new devices, new applications, new sets of data. So there's, there's that aspect of it, and then also the, the way the body changes and the environment does different things to us, I presume, when we're on a spaceship, or perhaps when we when we land on Mars, that elite look even different, more different. So I'm wondering how, how are doctors preparing for these changes and how they're going to provide health care?
Allison Sakara31:51
Well, the space flight surgeons and aerospace medicines, specialists, Sean, are already working on what would be those standards of care for treating people who are residing in space habitats, space communities. So at least we have folks with many years of experience who are bringing that already to the table. But what we envision at the institute is for that to be inspiration to all healthcare specialties, not just medicine, but nursing, physical therapy, pharmacy, psychology, social work, pick something that you know, of in in the realm of health care, all of those professions are going to need to have a space component integrated into their training integrated into their philosophies integrated into their observations and study of safety and effective therapies within their profession for space communities.
Maurice Ramirez33:11
And it's not just the people in space. Imagine 50 years from now, when we have flown enough people that we've collected enough information to make broad statements about the effect of spaceflight and, and microgravity and space radiation, excetera, etc, on the human body, and you're a pediatrician here on Earth. And you have a pediatric patient who says, I want to be an astronaut someday and work on Mars. Well, if you you, therefore have to have that, even though you yourself as a physician never fly to space, and never have to treat a patient in space, you have to have the knowledge of what will this young patient need to do need to prepare their body for need to store up and build resilience for in order to have the most successful life in space, when they eventually make it to space? Or take the opposite end? You're a geriatrician, and you again, have yourself never flown in space, you're not treating any old people in space. But you're working with patients who used to be in space they've retired, they have spent 20 years on a mind working in mines, or in research labs on Mars or on the moon. And they've they've returned with their pension and their retirement to Earth. And now what are the challenges that face these bodies that spent 20 years in space that spent another two or three years rehabilitating to Earth gravity and now are looking to move forward in life? And what do I as a geriatric geriatric medicine specialist, which I have that board what I have to know about? spaceflight and post spaceflight, not being an aerospace medicine doctor, in order to take care of this person, and until their 100th, or 100 and 20th birthday. So, as Allison said, medicine and healthcare and nursing and all this medical professions and specialties are going to over the next 20 to 50 years have to integrate space healthcare, and space healthcare concepts and space physiology into their practice. And to do the end, they're going to end to do that. We already learned with COVID and many other things when you when you bombard the specialty, with that much new information, it gets very difficult to keep up. And that's where these AI systems that can be advisory to medical professionals, to healthcare professionals, to to the entirety of healthcare at across the spectrum are going to be not just assistive but essential.
Allison Sakara36:04
It's basically the next step of what do you have to have in your hip pocket and so to speak, when Maurice and I were coming up in our trainings, everybody had a paper bound book stuffed into their pockets of their of their, of their jacket of their coat.
Maurice Ramirez36:19
Yeah, we called them peripheral brains.
Allison Sakara36:23
Then, then came the palm pilots that had that had the equivalent but far more information, and you can flip to it faster.
Maurice Ramirez36:32
And today, we all use phone apps. Similarly, things like like Sanford and up to date, and Medscape to keep up because the volume of new information that comes is is a is a tsunami today, and that doesn't even include space.
Allison Sakara36:53
And now will have AI in our pockets.
Marco Ciappelli36:57
Yeah, and people use it to play little video games. But that's the story for another day. So okay, my brain is exploding right now. And I think Sean's brain exploded, it's because he's not here anymore. But now he had another podcast to attend, I was gonna make a joke that the alien took him. But anyway, he was very bummed about that, because he loves this kind of stuff. He talks about technology, health tech, all the time, especially when it comes down to privacy, data management, and all of that. But me being more of a sociology kind of guy. I'm kind of a connecting few things here in terms of what you guys do. And I think we can start wrapping our presentation for the high alert Institute with the with the one frame because as you're talking, and you're thinking about all this different thing, the legality, the privacy, the artificial intelligence, the actual operability of things, that communication, and then you know, the new loan is to be done and new environment and habitat needs to be created. It's like, it's kind of like starting society all over again. And I'm going to be idealistic here and thinking, we kind of have a chance to do it, right. Maybe, maybe to do a very peaceful and although there are sci fi stories about, you know, dividing the planet and starting our own wars there too, but I don't want to be dystopian, so maybe can we always on and Morris reconnect these with all the togetherness of everything that needs to come together in one frame of mind?
Allison Sakara38:42
Marco, you are so spot on. Yes, that's exactly what a one frame work paradigm is trying to combine. Taking the best of the best, the best of one of a one nature concept, the best of a one planet concept, the best of a One Health concept. The best of 23rd Healthy People 2030 The best of all the WH o guys, goals, Ford Ford for 2030 bringing all of this together so that we can put our best foot forward and yes, absolutely as we move from this planet to others, try not to make the same mistakes over that we've done here.
Maurice Ramirez39:35
And you know, Marco, you you jokingly refer to other planetary civilizations outside of our solar system. This, the theoretical science to statistical probabilities are fairly definitive that somewhere out in the universe, there are other societies and that at some point, we will encounter them Maybe not in the next 100 years, maybe even not in the next millennia, but someday. And wouldn't it be great if, until that happens, we bring the best lessons from earth to space, perfect them and bring them back to Earth for a better earthly life for our our species, and all the other species. And then when we encounter those other, those other societies, from other solar systems, possibly even other galaxies, wouldn't it be wonderful that it was more of a United Federation of Planets, peaceful, cooperative effort, where we've learned that it's not worth the fight, rather than the the all too common dystopian, as you said, model that's used in in sci fi, to relive and, and, and reimagine the conflicts of the last 10,000 years of, of, of human society.
Marco Ciappelli41:13
You will think we will figure it out by now. But here we are. I think it's fascinated, and I cannot wait to dig in into a inch single one of these topics, and, and project and plans and an area that high alert Institute is it's covering, because again, we try to wrap it in three episodes, but we're going to need many more. And that's that's the beauty of it. You know what we're going to start bringing in other experts, we're gonna start having panels together, and it's gonna be great. I mean, for me, now that we're looking at this thing, especially in space, like, you know, you mentioned, our friend, Sean case that connected us. Every time I talked to him, I feel like we were ready to go in, in space for a very longest time, that time. And those 50 years, 30 years that you're mentioning, they look like 300, you know, even 1000 year from now, because there's so much wish to do things and move forward in both exploration and science and honestly, society. I mean, our future, literally, may depend on that in the long run. But let's talk to Rob, about what people can do not in 1000 year, but now. Maybe, you know, if they want to get involved with the high alert Institute, I mean, I, of course will have notes, we will put links on the website, for the website, on the podcast notes, but a call to action by from the two of you right now. How can people that listen to this and say, you know, I love what they're doing what? What can I do? How can they get involved? Well,
Maurice Ramirez43:07
you know, Sean, sorry, Marco, you know, we we're a not for profit. And we have, we have corporate sponsors who assist with with many projects, space, in particular, but many of our projects need not just corporate support, but support from individual donors, we need help. To do this good work is not free, although we do provide the fruits of the good work for free to those people that we serve. And so if people want to have real impact, and produce a real legacy that isn't just this week, or this month, or this even this year, but has impact going forward decades, possibly even millennia, as we said, want to have real impact in and real say in how we move forward as a society as how we move forward at a very concrete policy level. Then they can go to our website at WWW dot High Alert Institute dot o RG and click on the donate now button and donate or they can click on a pledge button and pledge and if they want to get our updates on the projects that we're working on. And our educational updates. They can click on the button that says yeah, updates, and they can go ahead and sign up. And we will that will receive an email or two every week with a link to an article or a newsletter. And of course opportunities to support the programs and projects that have the highlight institute that are of greatest interest and impact for them.
Marco Ciappelli44:55
Well, I should invite everybody to do so and stay tuned. For a lot more conversation with the both of you and shouldn't be for other experts and thinkers that come and I just gonna wrap this with my, my third that when people ask why do we explore is not just because we can, which is one of the reason it's even Kennedy said, because it was there Why do you go to Everest, but but also because for me it's a way to kind of look inward it's kind of like the overview effect when astronaut look at the planet from from the space station or around the orbit, and you just see it as a whole as a one. And in maybe it's an opportunity to reinvent yourself and understand who we really are and what we can do. So I'm getting very idealistic now. But I think the answer is 42. And with that, and with that, I'm gonna close either you know what it is, or no, but I assume that our audience will know, the answer is 42. So again, Allison and Maurice and Shawn that already left, I want to thank you very much for all of these very much looking forward to so many more conversation and getting people involved. And as a as a recurrent, episodic number of conversation that they will will have on redefining society in the next month and year to come off. So thank you very much.
Allison Sakara46:32
Thank you so much, Marco. It's a pleasure as always,
Maurice Ramirez46:35
thank you, Marco, and Sean .
Marco Ciappelli46:42