An episode about the transformative power of smart cities at the Smart City Expo 2023, this episode offers a compelling narrative on the fusion of technology, data management, and urban evolution.
Guests:
Shawn Butler, Co-Founder / VP - Architecture & Analytics at BNS UEP [@bnsuep1]
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/1kindword/
Kika Von Klück, VP - Research and Innovation at BNS UEP [@bnsuep1]
On Linkedin | https://www.linkedin.com/in/kikavonkluck/
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Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast & Audio Signals Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
Sean Martin, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast [@RedefiningCyber]
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/sean-martin
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Episode Notes
Welcome to a new episode of the "Redefining Society Podcast," where we talk about technological innovation and societal transformation, as witnessed at the Smart City Expo 2023. In this episode, we're joined by Shawn Butler and Kika Von Klück, two dear friends that happens to be visionaries in the realm of smart city development and data management.
Our conversation begins with a lament for the missed opportunity of in-person interaction, echoing a longing for the tangible experiences that enrich our discussions. Yet, through the lens of Shawn and Kika's insights, we virtually traverse the vibrant corridors of the Smart City Expo in Barcelona.
Kika Von Klück, VP of Research and Innovation for BNS, UEP, illuminates our understanding of the complex relationship between data, technology, and urban living. Her role in sifting through technological trends and innovations grants us a glimpse into the future of smart cities – where data becomes the nurturing parent, guiding the growth of sustainable, efficient urban ecosystems.
Shawn Butler, VP of Architecture and Analytics at BNS, UEP, takes us further into this world. He bridges the gap between business and technology, focusing on data lifecycle management, security, and monetization. Shawn's passion for creating data models that intertwine key performance, risk, and behavioral indicators offers a holistic approach to understanding and improving urban living.
Our conversation meanders through various aspects of smart city development, touching upon the integration of IoT in daily life, the transformation of urban spaces, and the importance of collaboration between government and private entities. We explore how these developments not only reshape our physical environments but also have profound implications on social dynamics and individual well-being.
As we wrap up, the discussion transcends the technicalities, inviting listeners to contemplate the broader implications of these advancements on society. The episode is a testament to our unending quest to harmonize technology with humanity, and a reminder that the future of smart cities lies not just in their technological prowess, but in their ability to enhance human experience. Did I forget to mention digital twins modeling, citizens co-creation, and circular economy?
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Resources
Smart City Expo: https://www.smartcityexpo.com/
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Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording, as errors may exist. At this time, we provide it “as it is,” and we hope it can be helpful for our audience.
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[00:00:00] Marco Ciappelli: All right, everybody, we are chatting here with two people that I wish, to be honest, Sean, we were chatting in person, maybe at a cafe, maybe, I don't know, in Lisbon,
Barcelona, something. For many reasons.
[00:00:19] Sean Martin: For many reasons. Certainly the pastries are a draw, but it's been far too long since we've seen Sean and Kika, and I miss them terribly.
[00:00:28] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, I know. And now we are actually using their eyes, their brain, and how we roll and, and, and what they experience. We're kind of like, I remember a movie strange days where we kind of pick into the memories and the brain of people and see what they lived in the past. It was a little weird, a little freaky movie, but that's not our intention today with the reason why we're doing this is because they were yeah.
Uh, the Smart, uh, City Expo in Barcelona, which is where I wanted to be and I didn't go, so I had to do a few episodes, with that. And when we, Sean, when we found out that Sean and Kika were there, like, there you go. We're gonna ask them.
[00:01:11] Sean Martin: They saw the cool stuff. Let's hear what's going on.
[00:01:13] Marco Ciappelli: But first, uh, for those that don't know who you are, uh, a warm welcome to both of you on, on the show.
And, uh. Maybe we start with Kika. Uh, who is Kika and then who is Shawn and what did you see? We'll get there.
[00:01:33] Kika Von Klück: Thank you guys. It's been a long time we've been in each other's presence and you illuminate our days every day when we see you online, at least. My name is Kika von Kluck. I am VP of Research and Innovation for BNS, UEP.
And we, um, are, um, Analytics and life cycle management for data. We are the mom and dads of data. And my function here is to find out what's going on in the world of technology trends and innovation so we can inform internally and our clients.
[00:02:15] Shawn Butler: Yeah. Well, thank you, Marco and Sean for having us.
And I echo and resonate with Kika's sentiments. I wish we were having this discussion, this chat in person, but, um, Doing it remotely will do for now. Plus Sean's rocking the New York hat. It's bringing, bringing, bringing us back to, uh, New York city. Uh, Brooklyn, New York.
[00:02:39] Sean Martin: I went with the gold to match the, uh, the, the, uh, Portuguese pastry.
So,
[00:02:49] Shawn Butler: Wonderful. Yeah. So as Kika said, uh, BNS UEP, we're based out of Brooklyn, New York. Um, you know, my position in the company is VP of architecture and analytics. So as Kika said to everyone listening, uh, Kika does the research with technology, trends and innovation, what's happening in different verticals, different industries.
And informs us internally and informs the teams internally. So we can understand from both a business perspective, uh, use cases, requirements, where are things going, as well as a technology perspective. What, what's the latest and greatest, not only three to five. Who knows what into the future, but what is relevant for the here and the now, uh, and how can we enable our clients to utilize technology and bridge that gap between business and technology?
So yeah, and you know, I have the opportunity, thankfully, to put data into practice. So as Geetka said, data lifecycle management, we focus on the inventory, the governance, the security, and the monetization. of data. And, uh, within those four pillars of data, we start creating different types of data models, um, which would, you know, consist at a high level of not only key performance indicators, which businesses are, that's what they thrive on typically, and the world of cybersecurity and information security.
We're very much focused. People in that domain are focused on key risk indicators, and then we have key behavioral indicators. So we're, you know, taking these, creating data models that are focused on three areas of indicators, key risk, key performance, and key behavioral. We're correlating those data models.
And we do that to not only enrich the data, but hopefully provide, uh, streamlined communication to make, um, better informed business decisions. So everyone, uh, C suite, all the C's, uh, are looking. At the same types of data and those who are interested in seeing profitability and growth, they see that, but their peers who are also in the C suite, like the CISO, for example, they're also understanding the risks and how they should protect critical assets, critical data, things of that nature.
So sorry for the long winded intro. I just get very passionate.
[00:05:18] Marco Ciappelli: I lost your cafe.
[00:05:23] Kika Von Klück: And this is more like a thousand layered cake here.
[00:05:28] Shawn Butler: Yeah,
[00:05:29] Marco Ciappelli: I know. I'm just joking about that. It's but it's important what you're doing. That's that's for sure. And I'm wondering how to connect with the smart cities. I mean, I, I can see few perspective here. I'm sure Sean sees different one than the one I see, as I look at from a sociological perspective.
And Sean may already be thinking about risk and privacy and all of that. But for a global view, what will make you say, okay, this is an event that we need to. Go and check it out.
[00:06:00] Kika Von Klück: Well, generally an event like Smart Cities World will bring the latest technologies and ideas in relation to mobility, urban planning and construction and these events, they have people from all over the world.
Um, the countries are represented in their booths and also big companies and startups. So it's very democratic in a way that everybody mingles with everybody else independently of their titles or positions. And everybody's interested in what is being used now and what is going to happen within the next 2, 5, 10 years in the future.
And Smart City. World Expo is, um, very good at putting together sessions that deal with the latest and greatest that, um, will be talked about a few years from now in the mainstream. So what attracted us to that specific event is the fact that we are at, um, very. important period of transformation in many ways, especially in the reintegration of society and humanity and technology.
And, um, a lot of cities are smarting up everything. They're making everything Personalized and relatable to IOT. And how do you integrate all these technologies with everyday living and in bettering people's, um, day to day activities, or how do you build, um, communities that will use less fuel or less, um, need for transportation, or how do you distribute food or water, water systems, cleaning, energy, everything.
So, uh, related to. urban living, practically. So it's very interesting to go to an event like that to see, to watch the talks and then see what every country is doing, uh, to better the lives of the citizens within them.
[00:08:15] Sean Martin: I love that. Big picture view, uh, Kika, because I think many, many of our listeners, at least in cybersecurity, the topic that I talk about most, and even when, when Marco digs into some of the technology, when it touches the business, I think we, it's easy to see a business.
IT infrastructure, and while complex inside, it's relatively self contained. There's an ecosystem of apps and APIs and services and things like that. But when you start talking about smart cities, that view looks a lot different. Uh, you have the people building the, engineering the stuff, building the stuff, uh, technology enabling it, uh, somebody else maybe manages it, uh, there are people using the data to drive broader city services or regional services as you were describing, Kika.
So how, how does, how do you help people kind of figure out what that looks like? From, from the perspective that you're, you're looking at in terms of here's the best way to get the best operationally while also mitigating, mitigating the risk that you face. Whomever you are in that ecosystem.
[00:09:39] Kika Von Klück: One of the things that we notice a lot in events in Europe in general is a conversation about the partnerships of governments and private enterprise.
Everybody is talking about how it is a much better. way to deal with problems when you have both engaged in solving, um, urbanization and, um, human problems in general in society, because politicians and governments generally change their tune every time they get, um, elected and private enterprises are only focused on profits, mostly focused on profits.
That's changing now with Regenerative Business Models, but that's another conversation. But, um, when you have a partnership of both governments and private enterprises, you see things happening a lot faster and a lot easier for everybody, I think, and, um, there seems to be less red tape and more.
Understanding of the immediate problems to be solved. So that is one aspect that I see, um, that is important for us in America, I think, to think about is that, um, Government is not the enemy of private enterprise and private enterprise is not the enemy of the people. If we all get together, um, it is much easier to solve a lot of the problems that we think that have, there are no solutions for.
[00:11:27] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. And I, I'm just going to pass the boat to Sean here, the, uh, the other Sean, but, uh, One observation is that I, the two conversations I had about this were actually with people that work in the government side of things, running a city like Peachtree, Peachtree's Corners down in Atlanta, and then another entity in Texas, and that was our conversation was a lot less technical and much more political, sociological in Kika, um, When you have maybe, political cycle to make things happen, you kind of hit your head against something that in a smart city, you just can't change things in in six months.
And your constituent is not the investors. They want to see a good quarter is the people that are going to like to three, two years from now on four years from now. And so it's kind of like where those glasses that allow you to see 10, 15, 20 years in the future. So Sean, uh, Yeah. Pretty complicated to put these two together, isn't it?
[00:12:42] Shawn Butler: Yeah, it's complicated. Um, however, um, the three of you have raised, yeah, obviously really good points. It's, um, it's an iterative approach. It's, uh, people use, uh... The terminology of crawl walk run, and it's really what is that crawl phase? How does the crawl phase look for that specific domain that we're talking about when we're talking about infrastructure and smart city planning?
So, when I think of infrastructure, because I, along with Sean Martin, come from an infrastructure and cybersecurity background. I started thinking about capacity planning and looking at trends relative to the, to the data. Certainly, if you look at pre pandemic in a lot of cities all throughout the U. S., um, population, uh, sizes looked a lot different.
And then pandemic hit. And then, you know, people started maybe going to the suburbs and then people started coming back after three years, um, you know, back into urban areas for different reasons, maybe job opportunities, more, maybe accessibility. Um, so as consumers and citizens of wherever we dwell, we have to start thinking, um, At that level that yes, during the day, I may be working for an architectural firm and I have a lot of responsibility as an architect.
However, as a consumer, I, I should be thinking about recycling materials. I should be thinking about clean water. I should be thinking about air that I breathe. Are there pollutants in the air? Certainly with climatic shifts and changes, we have seen so many things that have happened. All over the world. So, uh, you know, we saw what happened in the northeast part of the U.
S. over the summer, right, with Canada. Uh, why was that caused? We can have a whole scientific discussion on that, but, uh, the fact of the matter is, uh, we are doing things as humans, uh, where we are emitting, um, carbon toxins into the air. So, if we care about that, What is the incentive? What would incentivize us as consumers to start shifting the needle, removing the needle into a positive direction so there is more sustainability?
Do we want to breathe clean air? I think if you were to ask any person out there who is logical and sane, they would say, yes, I want to breathe clean air. Same thing with, uh, you know, water, uh, just the basics, right? So I think it's, you know, shifting the mindset and how do you do that? Kik and I were having this, we've been having this discussion over the past two weeks.
Uh, education, yes, is, is. Absolutely essential. We can keep saying the same thing in five different ways becomes a mantra. People start catching on to it. But to Kika's point, which I agree with, um, if you're not curious, and there are no incentives, that's the big question of how do we start shifting within our own local communities, and how do we start shifting that into a region, into a state, and how do we start Into a cluster of states or into a country, federal level, local level, um, it's very, very complex, but I think I'll give you three quick hits that I, I personally took away from this that may be helpful for the audience.
So, when we start thinking about housing, we had the opportunity to see, uh, John Roberson and John Roberson is the chief operating officer for the city of Chicago. So he works directly for the mayor of Chicago. And. You know, he talked a lot about incentives. How do we keep our talent at a very basic level?
And this is the X plus Y equals Z equation. If we want to keep talent in the city of Chicago, um, people have to be incentivized. Am I accessible to my place of work? Uh, do I have, uh, proper, uh, access to just. The basics in life. Uh, so getting into that whole discussion about mobility, but the other, uh, side to that is housing, right?
So he was talking a lot about the housing crisis in the city of Chicago. And as Kika stated, it's the city of Chicago working with local private corporations, uh, trying to come together on what is reasonable, what is feasible. Uh, then you have unions as a part of that mix as well, right? So it's It's constant conversation and what I would say, defining those use cases and requirements terms of housing.
He was talking about building, um, tiny houses out of containers that have been abandoned in shipyards, right? Uh, and in industrial factories, but taking containers and building small, uh, tiny houses close to. Train stations, accessibility. Um, you know, I, I think that's one example. Another part of that is the materials in which we use as builders, as architects, engineers, and construction, especially architects, laying the blueprint.
We have to think about the materials. Are these materials emitting carbon toxins? Where are they being sourced from? Are they being sourced from Um, materials that are sourced from labor, where it is child labor. Um, is it green material? Uh, how much carbon is it emitting? Right? And the way to do that, and we started scratching the surface at Smart City with this, is through solutions such as traceability.
Uh, so what traceability solutions will do, uh, for example, there's a... Wonderful company based out of, uh, the Netherlands called COTIT, C O T I T dot E U. What they will do is actually trace not only the materials, the source origin of those materials, where those materials come from, how it's being made, and also the packaging associated with it, with those materials, right?
And now we start thinking about the logistics, the supply chain, where is it going? And that is just one tiny component of one data point that spreads into this fully meshed topology. So, you know, those are just a couple of examples and traceability solutions. What else do we see in architecture? Digital twins and BIM.
So digital twins being used for replicating, uh, Foundations, buildings, structures, uh, so we can look at capacity planning and management. So we can look at the materials that may be going into those buildings. Not only new buildings, but as we've seen all throughout the US, um, cities where, uh, commercial real estate has been abandoned, they're not being occupied.
So how do we remodel, refurbish, renovate, uh, where it is for affordable housing? education, other forms of this sustainable community. I'm sorry for going off, but I was very passionate there.
[00:19:52] Marco Ciappelli: Fascinating. I mean, it is, you can keep going if you want. Yeah, I'm just going to listen. It's your podcast now.
[00:20:02] Sean Martin: Sean, I want you to keep going with some of the, some of the examples that you guys have seen. 'cause it's funny. I was gonna ask you oftentimes when I, especially, uh, conferences like, uh, smart City or CES where they're very future driven, a lot of the stuff is.
Cutting edge, bleeding edge, not quite there yet, but we want to show you where things are going, um, kind of leaves me with, well, how do we take that next step? And you provided a few, few examples, but are there any others that, um, that maybe demonstrate how... Things become feasible because a lot of times some of these new technologies cost a lot as well, right?
And so who's going to pick up the expense for purchasing them? Who's going to deploy them? Who's going to manage them, secure them? It starts to add up all this expense. I don't know if you have any examples of Things that are so specific that we can actually say, you know, this is a good step we can take, and it's going to, it's going to drive a lot of value across many, many smart cities.
[00:21:22] Shawn Butler: Yeah. Makes sense. Great question. Um, yes. So digital twins and BIM has been in the world of architecture, engineering, and construction, arguably in the mainstream for. Five years, at least right now, you've got somewhat of a complex situation that we're dealing with here, uh, in the world of AEC, uh, because obviously not every, uh, AEC firm, uh, have been using digital.
What's AEC? Sorry. Architecture, engineering, and construction. So that, that market vertical, that vertical segment, when you think about, let's, let's just focus on architecture, because that's, that's the entry point, and that's where, uh, it's really up to architects to start thinking more about, uh, sustainable materials, uh, when they're constructing the blueprints, and what are they going to use, um, For this, for this building, uh, I'll be it, uh, for consumers, citizens, or, you know, commercially, uh, commercial buildings.
So, in that world, um, digital twins, that's a very good example. And so is BIM, right? Um, There is a company and you know, I'm not name dropping. I'm just giving the audience just some examples of, hey, if you're interested in, you know, the world of digital twins, uh, what, what's going on, where can I find this?
Can, um, easily, easily do a search and you're going to find tons of companies that. Do digital, digital, use digital twins or have this software that architectural firms can start utilizing. Um, there is for our
[00:23:18] Sean Martin: audience sake, Sean, if you can explain digital twin, it's not replicating you or me, right? This is, this is what, what is the infrastructure of, of this building and, and how can we represent that digitally so we can.
Test the limits, test, you mentioned earlier, capacity, things like that. So can you maybe paint a quick picture for that so people
[00:23:46] Shawn Butler: understand? Yeah, so digital twin would be, for example, let's take just You know, apartment buildings, for example, in any, any of the major cities. And since we're talking about smart cities, it's probably, probably near and dear to many people's hearts because it's, we're talking about shelter.
We're talking about housing. So as, as a firm, the digital twin technology, you can go into an existing. Building an apartment building and say, I've got the dimensions, but now I want to replicate this building. I want to create a twin of this building, model it and start looking at what do I have as far as my current state requirements.
These current state requirements from a blueprint perspective, obviously would be plumbing all of the infrastructure for water. Um, you know, you may have amenities in there. You know, in this, in this existing building, which may be, you know, washers and dryers and so forth. So now we're talking about also electricity.
Electricity that's going into each individual unit. Uh, we're looking at spatial awareness, right? In terms of where is the kitchen? Where is the bathroom? Where is the bedroom? Where is bedroom number 2? Is there another room? Uh, that's maybe a study hall or. It really depends on that building. So a digital twin can not only replicate that, but you can also start utilizing that to reconstruct.
Uh, whereas if you're looking to do renovations, remodeling, uh, expansion, uh, if you want to knock out, um, you know, another apartment building and make. You know, two different apartments become one. How does that look? There are different, different reasons, obviously, for that. Um, the other aspect to it is, um, materials as well, right?
So, you know, it just makes it a lot easier when you're going through, um, kind of like the checks and balances at the very, very end of that blueprint. Um, and the world of architecture, I think they call it punchdowns, right? Where they're actually verifying and validating that, uh, these dimensions for, let's just say, electricity for where the water is coming from that everything is.
Has been verified and validated. It's up to code up to those standards. Uh, so, uh, yeah, digital twins becomes a lot more. What's the value prop? The value prop is that it's a lot more accurate, effective, efficient when it comes to design planning, remodeling and renovation. So, I hope, hopefully that was a good picture.
We could use the same example for commercial buildings. Which we're seeing, uh, all over the, all over the globe, um, especially obviously in, you know, major cities, um, how they're using digital twins.
[00:26:50] Sean Martin: As long as there's a place of Calcutta. Marble for me to, to pick up my croissant from.
[00:26:59] Shawn Butler: Exactly, exactly.
[00:27:00] Marco Ciappelli: What is amazing about the technology that come into place with this is that you're building models, right? So the digital twin for me, I can translate it into modeling and making scenario, which is what you could do when you develop a new drug. For example, or how you develop something and when you can put what is physical into digital, then you can manipulate all of that.
Without having to actually physically doing that and let the machine do it. So maybe this is a good way to put it for, for the audience and also show the outcome of what it can be. And if people don't like it or there's too much cost of our budget or political reason, you can say, you know, instead of re knocking down the building that we just remodeled.
We can just do that on the, on the digital twin. So that's, that's pretty cool.
[00:27:52] Sean Martin: Um, it needs to fit into the environment as well. Like if, if everybody in that building, let's assume there's a parking, parking infrastructure underneath, everybody wants an electric car. Not just can that building handle it capacity wise, but can the street and the block and the neighborhood and blah, blah, blah, right on and on and on.
See, you can start to build a bigger picture as, as the twin, uh, eats more croissants and gets bigger and bigger and bigger.
[00:28:24] Shawn Butler: It's true. Those are really good examples. I love what both of you said. And it's the modeling. Um, that that enables the capacity of planning and management, the areas of interest, the profitability.
Um, we talked a little bit about materials management. Are these sustainable materials? Where are they coming from? Um, how do we construct this? And the same way we think about models, uh, which if we. Maybe played with Legos when we were little. It's all these little pieces coming together. Now, Digital Twins accelerates that process and we can see it a lot faster.
It's more visible. It's more tangible. And now we can start rearranging according to, as both, both of you said, Marco and Sean, areas of interest. Maybe we're seeing an uptick with electric vehicles in this neighborhood, in this section, in this cluster, and take any neighborhood that we've ever lived in, right, and this is what we're seeing an uptick in.
We're seeing an interest in electric vehicles. Do we have enough power in the basement, in the garage, um, to Satisfy these requirements. And again, consumers driving that. I love the idea of models because it also resonates with me for data modeling, right? Because these models become different data points that we can start ingesting this data as the planning process is happening.
And this is where we. Um, can actually ingest the data and start modeling that, uh, because, um, it's great to model, but if you're not, um, ingesting, uh, correlating the data, looking at the different data points, and then outputting that relative to the use cases and requirements, then it's not going to be verifiable.
And then your numbers in terms of, you know, what are your profit projections? Right? Uh, they may, they may be skewed. They will be skewed. Right? So I love that analogy of models and kind of like the, the neighborhood clusters, you know, this, this part likes electric. This doesn't, um, how's that, how's that neighborhood?
That's not interested for whatever reason, maybe for economic reasons, maybe just for, Okay. As Kika mentioned, incentives, curiosity, maybe this is where carbon, carbon credits and carbon incentives as consumers come into play for us, right? So now we're starting to construct these models, not only for interest for local governments and, and corporations that are involved with this, but we as consumers are now part of this niche word that everyone's throwing around called the circular economy.
Because it's a complete life cycle and keeps going around and around and around and around. Hopefully we keep evolving and progressing with that and not regressing and deteriorating ourselves. Um, right. So that's, that's the big question.
[00:31:18] Marco Ciappelli: And I think it's a, it's a good, uh, It's a good topic to kind of wrap this conversation, which can go in a lot of different direction.
I mean, you were mentioned at the beginning that you had to choose one specific truck path, let's say a segment of the expo, because again, I wasn't there, but I've seen all the talk. I've seen It's kind of like going to CES, which, by the way, we'll be talking to them soon, and it's, it's about everything.
You can go to the space, you can go to the health, you can go to the city modeling, the IOT, the cyber security, whatever. It's a very complex conversation, but I like, like I said, to end with this vision, maybe that you can have for the circular economy, because I feel it's what is really going to incentive the cooperation between government.
Politics also show a quick return to the citizen because one of the conversation for the city is that it's kind of like when you go to Disneyland, right? Everything happened. A lot happened in the backstage for you going through is just fun and game unless something goes, goes really wrong. But there is so much going on in the backstage.
And so you got to show the citizen that All this budget, all this dedication, it's also going to, in a way, produce certain results right away. And I think if you create this economy, you can actually see it right away. What's your thought on that?
[00:33:01] Shawn Butler: I love that and totally agree. You know, um, when we talk circular, it doesn't, again, these are just buzzwords and people who are in the industry and we're having this conversation now.
Well, that's all well and good, but how, how is it applicable? How is it usable? How's it meaningful for me as an individual consumer, for my next door neighbor, for families? You know, for anyone who is really just trying to live, right. And I, I think you really hit on a good point there, Marco. So like, here's an example.
We chose the architecture it's called the tomorrow building. And I, I said, why do they call it Tomorrow Building? Because we're here and now. Let's call it the Now Building, right? To Sean Martin's point, uh, because we need to start making incremental changes now. The, the pie in the sky is all well and good, but let's, let's get down to it.
And how do we start? Moving things forward. So we chose the Tomorrow Building track. It was very, very insightful. I mentioned John Roberson from the City of Chicago found that very, very interesting to start seeing this convergence between commercial and consumer. As Kika mentioned, the public and private sectors trying to work together.
Um, but, uh, I wanted to add in terms of, you know, circular and what that really means is, you know, water management. What are we doing for water management, water retention, um, uh, desalination? Kika mentioned the blue economy, right? Um, Water is becoming, you know, more and more sparse. There are areas of this planet that are just becoming drier and drier.
Accessibility to water. So, uh, just thinking about that more and more. We also saw, um, the city of Caixcaix, uh, being represented there. And in Portugal, Caixcaix for those who don't know is, um, in Portugal. So talked about incentives for the community. So littering. Something very, very basic and some of this stuff you might think, why are we just focusing on this?
Well, um, let's give people incentives. So building community awareness in terms of littering and that, um, because they, there's, you know, very close to a body of water. Um, so. littering, uh, pollution of that water. And now when we start talking about circular, well, uh, what about the sea life? What about the natural habitats, um, in the sea, in the oceans, in our bodies of water that starts become becoming contaminated.
Uh, we know that we have fluoride and other things in, you know, in, in the water, uh, maybe even contents of mercury. So many things. So it's just the little things like that. So if we want to be a part of it too, it's also up to us as consumers to start, um, being active, being participants. and our local communities.
Um, and I thought the, the gentleman from Kaish Kaish, um, it's like what they're doing is they're incentivizing, uh, children, uh, because that's, you know, that's where it starts, right? Incentivizing the children, the families, to be a part of the community and spread awareness in a fun way. And not just like this, uh, boring, this is what you should or should not do, but making it very artistic, making it very creative.
And when we use art and creativity, the possibilities expands our imaginations. Right? Expand as well. Um, and that's a way to just, you know, mobilize, mobilize the community and have fun while you're doing it. Right? So this, this whole thing about sustainability and ooh, circular, it, it, it, it, let's, let's have fun because this is our livelihoods.
This is our life. Um, and, you know, I think one of the things. That we saw on a consistent level and the majority consensus was so easy to sit back and, and just like say, Hey, you know what, the earth is more powerful than any human. The earth is going to do whatever it wants to do. Well, that's, that's just like, that's complacency.
Why wouldn't you want to do something? Why wouldn't you want to have clean air? The air could be cleaner for you, your children, your grandchildren, for your community, for us as a human population. Why wouldn't we want to change it? Right? So it's just like these basics. And then lastly, I would like to quote, um, this, uh, talk that I, that I caught building future cities through design tech, and we could change that future cities to say building cities for the present, um, with design tech.
And I was able to catch Natalia Oliveira, uh, partner and director at ESE. And she said, as architects, you are reducing energy costs and carbon footprints on the building. You are not going to need as much energy to warm or cool your house. So with a technology like, um, BIM, you can, and, and digital twins, you can actually model and predict To see how the materials will affect the energy use, right?
So now we're taking a psychological shift in the materials that we had been using because of maybe costs, as Sean and Marco have mentioned, right? Um, but those materials that are more sustainable, less of a carbon emission are becoming more cost effective for architecture, engineering and construction firms.
So you want to build An apartment that consists of glass, for example. Well, let's think about how the sunlight is coming in the different angles. I'm not an architect in that sense, but you can see where all of this is going. Then we can start predicting how we design the shades, right? Um, and exterior buildings and facades, um, more and more architectural firms.
Obviously, you're thinking about these things and, um, putting this into practice. So, materials management, water management, pollution, littering, and not in the smart cities, but as we all live through life, these little epiphanies and affirmations occur, um, Seeing, you know, just more and more programs out there on, um, packaging materials and, and keeping our, um, bodies of water, uh, clean, because this, this is what it's all about.
That's the circular economy.
[00:39:50] Sean Martin: Love it. And the culture doesn't change overnight, right? It's the person at a time, moment in time. So final word from you, Kika, as we wrap up here.
[00:40:02] Kika Von Klück: One of the themes that was most prominent throughout the conference was co creation. And also, when you engage citizens in a project, they will donate the data and they will do the data correlation themselves.
They want to make sure that what you're telling them is the truth, and they will participate in the building and creation, renovation, and reliving of spaces, um, together with whoever is building them. So the other thing about digital twins is predictability.
So when citizens are participating in projects throughout their city, they will facilitate. The models that will predict floodings, that will predict storms of all kinds, that will predict where do we need less cars or more urban transportation or more bicycle lanes. So people will build together with you.
And it's up to whoever is building the city, the buildings, the facilities. To engage people and to make them curious enough to be together in this collaborative effort, which is a society, you know, so that was, to me, one of the most impressive things is that if you have engagement that is through positive ideas and not through complaining, you will get much better results.
In order to build, um, more sustainable and lasting projects. It's a long term vision, instead of, uh, just focusing on the profitability of projects.
[00:42:06] Sean Martin: Yeah, and I, I think, uh, you make some excellent points there, Kika. And, and, I think with, we talked a lot about data in the beginning. With data, where everybody's contributing and everybody, presumably, has visibility into it, uh, we can...
Begin to see what we want, guide us to what we want, and hold each other accountable to achieve that. Right? Um, we're not relying on some blind, some empty promises from some politician. We can play an active role in the cities that we want to live in.
[00:42:43] Marco Ciappelli: And it's a compromise. I mean... Politics is the highway of come on, you know, that could be in a monarchy of an enlightened king that which is not a bad thing to have, but in general, I think I love this conversation.
I know we got to close it right now, and I think we should have more. Maybe a part two of this because it touched a lot on on on many things, but that the compromise and then making this conversation. This citizen part of it, I think is key, right? It's it makes me think about the Toyota model back in the seventies where you empower the people in the production in the manufacture chain to be responsible to have the vision for what is the final product.
You're not just specializing one thing that you're going to do without knowing that you are actually big part of it. The final product. So giving that vision, it will be very important and not just tell them, Hey, you got to do this because you got to do it. But nobody's going to do it that way. Right.
[00:43:49] Sean Martin: So it's important for humans in general.
[00:43:51] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, exactly. Well, with this, we're going to jump on another code for about CES because soon. We're going to have the other big event. I want to thank you, Sean and Kika. First of all, it was great to see you again, even if virtually, and maybe next time we'll be in person and for sharing this really, really deep thoughts and your experience.
It's always very, very valuable for us. So thank you very much. And everybody that has been following us. I hope you enjoyed it. Learn something, thinking. Thank you again. Subscribe. Stay tuned. See you later.
[00:44:31] Shawn Butler: Thank you both very much. Thank you everybody. Thank you for having us. Of course.