In this episode, join hosts Marco Ciappelli and recurring guest Dr. Bruce Y. Lee as they explore the fascinating world where human behaviors connect and interact with the quick and big leaps of artificial intelligence and robotics.
Guest: Dr. Bruce Y Lee, Executive Director of PHICOR (Public Health Informatics, Computational, and Operations Research) [@PHICORteam]
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/bruce-y-lee-68a6834/
On Twitter | https://twitter.com/bruce_y_lee
Website | https://www.bruceylee.com/
On Forbes | https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/
On Psychology Today | https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/contributors/bruce-y-lee-md-mba
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Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
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Episode Introduction
Welcome back to another episode of the Redefining Society podcast! In this engaging episode, hosts Marco Ciappelli and recurring guest Dr. Bruce Y. Lee dive once more into the intriguing world of technology, particularly looking at the role of artificial intelligence (AI) and robotics in our everyday lives. They discuss whether these advancements need to closely mimic human look, personalities, and behaviors for more effective integration, or if humans are capable of interacting with non-human resembling technology.
The conversation brings up Sophia, a humanoid who was the guest of honor at an event. Sophia was programmed by her human creators to possess specific human-like personality traits. This blurs the line between human and technical interactions and prompts discussions on what an acceptable 'face' of technology can be.
Another point of discussion is the controversial self-driving cars trend - a clear example of humans learning to trust machines. Despite their extremely non-human form, these vehicles are gaining acceptance, indicating that humans may not always need humanoid technology.
Importantly, they also explore the future of technology, wondering if it will take inspiration from creatures in the animal kingdom for better mobility and adaptiveness. They visualize a scenario of coexisting with cube-shaped companions, adding weight to their theory of embracing non-human-like technology.
Through this light-hearted yet thought-provoking discourse, Ciappelli and Lee challenge listeners to broaden their views on technological advancements and the boundaries of human-tech interactions.
Tune in, enjoy, share, and do not forget to subscribe to Redefining Society Podcast.
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Resources
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Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording, as errors may exist. At this time, we provide it “as it is,” and we hope it can be helpful for our audience.
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[00:00:00] Marco Ciappelli: Blue and yellow. Perfect. Yeah. So for those looking, uh, we are going on a two tone. Bruce. Bruce is blue and, uh, Marco is yellow. Well, here we are. Redefining Society. Um, once again with, uh, my dear friend, Bruce Wiley, Dr. Bruce Wiley, where, uh, we, we just pick a topic, um, before we start recording. We don't plan, we don't script, but we usually have a lot of fun and we hope that everybody does have fun.
Our conversation are at the intersection of, uh, health, health tech, um, humanity, society. Sometimes we get very philosophical, and I think today we're going to do just that. I'm quite excited about the topic that we pick. But before we go there, Bruce, a couple of words about you, what you've done since, uh, the last time we spoke.
[00:01:02] Bruce Y. Lee: Yeah, I think it's actually quite, uh, quite topical that I'm encased in sort of a blue color and you in, um, a different color because I think we're going to be talking about some of The, uh, impact of tech appearance and all those types of things like that. So, um, yeah, I think that since we last talked, I, I always lose, uh.
track of time in general. So, uh, yeah, we've been, um, busy with different, I, I, I just got back from, uh, from Texas. Uh, we had, uh, um, I'm part of a, um, consortium of all the different major sports leagues where we're looking ways to increase, uh, youth sports participation and youth, uh, physical. Activity, you know, as, as you may know, physical inactivity is a major problem, uh, not just the United States, but worldwide.
And one of the big issues is that, um, we, we've seen dips in youth sports participation. You know, it used to be that That's just standard. When you grow up, you know, you throw around a ball or kick around a soccer ball or what have you, but, uh, things have changed, uh, people have become more sedentary. Um, so that's a significant problem that we've actually been trying to address.
So it's always great to see some of my compatriots, uh, in that consortium. And so that's what I've been up to, uh, over the past few days.
[00:02:29] Marco Ciappelli: That's really cool. And actually we should talk about that in, in, in depth in one of our next episode, I'm going to make a note to talk about that. Cause I think it's very important.
We, we, we were talking before we start recording about a conversation I had with someone that develop an app to help with nutrition and dieting because yeah, uh, apparently it's getting more and more of an issue. And, uh, and I was always hoping that, remember when I was, A kid again, you know, we, we like to go back in time.
I guess it's, it's come with our age, but I mean, you couldn't pay me to sit down , I mean, at school maybe. But then, uh, I had to go and run around, play soccer, uh, get out on the bike, hurt myself. And, uh, and it's hard to believe that kids nowadays don't, don't do the same thing.
[00:03:22] Bruce Y. Lee: Yeah, no, you've got, uh, you got several issues.
One is in general, physical activities going down, you know, people are more glued to their electronic devices. Um, and two is, uh, also when people do play sports, there's so there's can be so much of an emphasis on, you know, just. Focusing on one sport and trying to like compete, compete, compete when it actually should be fun.
Uh, and that can be a great turnoff to many kids because, you know, not every kid is going to become the next NBA player or the next, you know, uh, World Cup player. Or what have you. Um, you know, most kids, most kids ultimately are not going to become top professional athletes. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't play sports as a kid because, you know, it's good physical activity.
You gain a lot more physical literacy, which is basically you understand how your body moves. And also doing things like team sports can be really helpful when it comes in the future. I, um, some of my team members joke that many times I'll use sports analogies, um, and because sports can teach you a lot about teamwork, working together, uh, you know, trying to survey the field, figuring out, you know, what to do next, uh, thinking quickly.
There's a lot of types of, um, uh, skills and abilities that, that sports can really own. And, uh, it's unfortunate that, that many kids are not taking advantage of that.
[00:04:48] Marco Ciappelli: Let's talk a second more about this because there is of course the benefit as you mentioned for your body and as you're going into the benefit of knowing how to start interacting with others in a team sport.
I mean, one of the basic thing you learn when you do team sport is it's not just about you. Although there are then the one that wants to strike the goal at all costs, but sometimes if you want to win, you may want to have the other person strike the goal because you passing it, it's as important as put it in inside the net.
So that's, that's important. And I think, uh, taking things seriously. But if your only goal, as you said, is to become the number one player in the world, I think that the barrier, it gets so high that once you realize that it's not going to happen, then all the fun goes out of it.
[00:05:46] Bruce Y. Lee: Yeah. It becomes like work.
And like, you're, you're like, uh, you're like an eight year old and you're like, feel like you're going to work.
[00:05:55] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, not a good thing. Not a good thing. But yeah, let's talk more about this next time. For today's topic. I'm going to, I'm actually going to stay there. Let's, uh, let's, let's go into a little bit of a, of a scenario where let's imagine the coach.
It's, uh, not made of, uh, flesh and blood, but it's, uh, maybe a robot and, uh, what, what it would look like. Can it be a brick on, on four wheels that just follow you around the field, whatever it is and tell you what to do?
[00:06:33] Bruce Y. Lee: Gigantic soccer ball or something like that. Yeah.
[00:06:36] Marco Ciappelli: Something like that too. Depending, depending on the sport, it could be like a golf bag or a tennis racket or has to have.
Two arms, two legs and resemble a human being, even if we clearly know that that we're not because it seems to me that most of the time we have a tendency to go there. I've seen some robotics lately that it's literally could act on a movie and not being AI, but actually a robot. And I wonder, yes, for certain aspect of life, maybe, but Do we have to anthropomorphize everything?
And that's a very hard word to say for me too. So I train on that. So who is going to teach these kids running around? A cube? Yeah.
[00:07:31] Bruce Y. Lee: Um, yeah, you know, it's interesting. There's, there's, there's. You know, more and more efforts these days to try to create more human interfaces, right? So, um, you're talking about, you know, apps or like you mentioned a robot or what have you, um, and there's that whole, uh, what is it called?
It's the uncanny Valley where you can, you can, uh, get really close, but it's still. There's something you're like, this is not a person. In fact, I was, uh, I saw this trend on what, uh, uh, TikTok or social media where people are trying to put makeup on themselves to look like they're, they belong to the uncanny valley.
So these are humans that like, we're wearing makeup so that, and then when you look at them, you feel a little like. A little taken aback because they look like humans because they are humans, but they're wearing makeup. So that they look like some kind of AI generated something or other.
[00:08:26] Marco Ciappelli: I didn't know that.
I got to check that out. The other way around.
[00:08:31] Bruce Y. Lee: You've got to keep up on these TikTok trends, right? That's the whole, that is the whole purpose of life. The whole purpose of life is to go on to TikTok and figure out what everyone else is doing and try to do exactly what they're doing. There you go.
[00:08:43] Marco Ciappelli: I haven't jumped on the TikTok train when it happened and I feel like it's a little too late now.
I'm more on the LinkedIn one and I don't know. We'll see. But this is interesting. It's almost like let's meet in the middle. Let's welcome the robot by doing the opposite thing that I just started to say. Yeah. Let's look all like robots. So imperfection become the standard, maybe?
[00:09:10] Bruce Y. Lee: I don't know. Yeah, well, who knows with, with, with, uh, if, if you've, if you've, uh, used too much Botox and too much, you know, too much, uh, uh, plastic surgery over time, you start looking like a robot.
So, um, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's, uh, you know, I think there's a recognition that, um, there's a difference between interacting with something that's, you know, text or if it's like some type of. That's obviously not a person, or if you mentioned like some kind of cube or box or, or circle, et cetera, uh, because there's a lot to be said about, uh, human to human interaction.
Um, I think we, we always talk about the five senses, right? We talk about smell, taste, sight, hearing, touch. Um, but. Yeah, there's, there's, uh, there's evidence that there are additional senses that are going on besides those things. Like you always talk about people saying, Oh, I got some kind of intuition or some kind of feeling or, or what have you.
And so just because five senses has been, have been clearly identified, doesn't necessarily mean that our information intake is limited to those five senses. Plus, in addition to that, those five senses can be a lot more complex than simple. Oh, I have five separate sentences and I see something there for, you know, et cetera.
There's a lot of interplay. So there is a difference between interacting with someone who's human and interacting in many cases with a lot of tech based things. Um, and sometimes, you know, many times it's actually the interaction and not the information, the explicit information that's more important. So you mentioned like coaching.
So Sure. A coach is going to tell you, you know, let's, let's take soccer. For example, I usually call soccer football everywhere else in the world, except for the U S because we've somehow decided that it should be called soccer, it's our football. Um, but that's another thing because actually soccer uses the foot a lot more than football does, but anyway.
Um, so with soccer, uh, there are, you know, you can have someone instruct you and tell you, okay, this is how you should dribble the ball. This is how you should shoot the ball, et cetera. But in reality, you could get a lot of that stuff. from a book, right? Or you watch a training video and those things like that.
So why do you actually have to have a coach? Well, one is to get immediate feedback that's tailored to your specific situation, right? So a coach can look at you and say, okay, you specifically are kicking the ball in the wrong way. You should adjust to this accordingly, et cetera. That being said, in theory, You know, AI could do that, right?
So sit there and say, all right, let's, let's measure where your foot placement is and all these things adjust accordingly. But the other things that, that a coach can do is, uh, they can offer, um, uh, encouragement, um, so they have to say the right things, you know. Uh, encourage you to keep going and those things like that.
So can any type of program do that? Yeah, it could. It could look for certain cues and saying, Marco, you're great. You're fabulous. You're fantastic. You know, that kind of stuff like, you know, it can do that. But then the third thing is really just the presence. Um, and presence is very important and presence is the type of thing that's harder to replicate, right?
So it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, when you're with someone. You'll get certain feelings, you'll feel like that person is there, you'll feel like that person is supportive and behind what you're interested in doing. That person sometimes doesn't even have to say anything. Um, so it, or sometimes, you know, it can be as simple as like a look.
You look at the person, the person gives you like an affirmative look. Or just the body positioning is, is makes you feel better. And those things like that. And that's where a cube would not work unless you're used to interacting with cubes, unless you grew up, everyone was a cube around you. You're like, I get this.
This is what, this is how I feel most comfortable around cubes at arms and legs, I, then I start feeling uncomfortable, but cubes. So in that case, yes. But for most humans, I think they need a lot of that. They would prefer a lot that type of feedback and that feeling that you don't really get from this pure voice or text or what have you.
[00:13:33] Marco Ciappelli: Okay, I, I, I definitely agree. I get that point. Um, but there is that uncanny valley situation where we're certainly not there yet. And then there is the idea of let's say that we get there and there is coach A2WZ 00 version 2. 0 that is really good. I mean, he's pretty much human, but you do know it's That is not, or do we go into the future where we really cannot distinguish between a human and, and, uh, in a robot, uh, plenty of movie about that, but I guess maybe there is time and place for, for different application, um, nowadays that we are not to that, to that level of, uh, easy.
Even mixing human with, with robotics. So I'm thinking if you're the, if you are bringing it to the next level of, yeah, we need the eyebrow that lifted just that this posture and all of that, absolutely agree with you. So probably should not robotics. Substitute the relationship with kids, um, especially being a coach because it's a lot more than that, but let's say you go to, you go to the lab.
Um, let's go back to the medical, uh, because I actually, I know that there are virtual assistant that you go to touch the screen and they will give you direction to where is the office where it's not. And people seems to be quite fine with that. This avatar, but. They still, even if he's an avatar inside a box, they still resemble a character that is, that is human, as human as possible.
It's not going to be a cat, or maybe, I don't know. It's an idea that tells you, yeah, that's where you go to, to draw blood. Um, so maybe in that situation, do we need that empathy that comes from looking like you, or would it be okay that you just touch a button and And you talk, I'm going to bring again, I don't know why I'm in the cube world today.
So, and you talk to a cube, would that, that work?
[00:16:00] Bruce Y. Lee: Yeah. I was about to ask, did you have like breakfast with a cube or something like that?
[00:16:04] Marco Ciappelli: I don't know. I'm looking around. I'm like, do I have cube today?
[00:16:08] Bruce Y. Lee: Yeah. I mean, I, you know, there's a spectrum of like how to. You know, what technology is going to be used for.
So if it's a simple task, like, you know, you just want something where there's probably not a huge need to establish an interface, um, but an interface can help significantly. Um, and you know, people realize that if you establish interface, you will develop. You could potentially develop more connection with whatever you're trying to use that thing for.
Um, so we know that there's certain types of technology that you can see people actually develop connections for, right? People's, people's smartphones are no longer just phones. People treat them like a friend or what have you. Or especially, you know, you have these things like Siri or Alexa or something like that.
People are talking to them, so it gives people a feeling they're actually talking to something. Um, so we are moving in that direction as a society where things are becoming more and more personalized. And there are these cues that make them seem more like just straight flat technology. Um, and we see that every day, right?
We see that in like these interactive assistants, you know, which are designed to actually, instead of having people like in phone banks ready to answer a call, you jump on the chat and in the meantime still throw an avatar on there. There's no need for them to do that, but you know what they're trying to do.
They're putting the avatar there. So you feel like you're actually. Communicating with someone. Um, so, you know, whether, whether, uh, one likes it or not, that's the way things are moving towards, um, it, things are becoming more and more anthropomorphized, uh, because there's just full understanding that.
You're going to get more of a feeling reaction, and you're going to potentially develop more connection if those things are in place.
[00:18:07] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, well, what
[00:18:10] Bruce Y. Lee: is after a while, right? At some point, you could see how people start getting confused. So
[00:18:15] Marco Ciappelli: I think one if there is one. The other thing to say positive about humans is that we, even if many times we do tend to resist change, or at least some of us do, we, we are very good at adopting.
And I think this is a good example of that. Because as we talk about the need for maybe the coach to be human for a lot of reasons, um, maybe the, the Computer robot doctor of the future, should probably resemble some kind of a human, I'm thinking. But we are interacting, you said correctly, with our phone.
And CHAT GPT, you can talk to it right now. I don't know if you had that experience, but, uh, it's interesting. I mean, it's, uh, kind of annoying, still. I think there's a lot of work to be done. But you can. You can have that conversation. We are at least, maybe not in the, in, in the form, in the, in the physical world.
We're still in a very uncanny valley, but when it comes to voice, synthetic voice, I, I use, uh, Natural language readers. And trust me, you can't tell that they're not real actors to tell the story. And I think the same thing is happening. So at a voice level, we're there and we don't have a problem in having a front if friends that is shaped as a, as a smartphone.
We're definitely adapting to, to that. So I don't know if maybe in the future, we will not really need that particular kind of, uh, human form to anthropomorphize everything if we adapt to interact, you know, maybe being more, pay more attention to, to the tone of the voice instead of relying on the expression of the face.
That's
[00:20:24] Bruce Y. Lee: true. Could be. Yeah, that's true. As I, I think as people get more and more used to certain types of interfaces, then they may not necessarily. Um, expect certain types of interface. I think if you were to take, um, you know, say a start smartphone and say we, we, we took the smartphone, we jumped into our, um, our DeLorean time machine.
And then we went back to what, you know, when, when did, uh, when did Michael J. Fox go back to like the fifties or something? Yeah, the fifties. And then we were the dropper phone place. People wouldn't know what to do with it. I mean, they don't, they don't know how to interact with it. In fact. The opposite is true.
Also, I saw those in some type of talk show where I, uh, they took, um, some people who are, I think in their teens or something like that, and then they, they, they gave them like a rotary telephone and a few other things. And, and they didn't know what to do with it. They look at the rotary telephone. They're like, Hello?
Well, you know, stuff like that. So, so yeah, it's true. It's humans. We adapt in different directions depending on what we're actually used to. So we, yeah, we have to keep in mind that. Back in the 50s or 20s or, you know, 1900s, the expected interactions were different. And what you expected to interact was so you can't assume that it's always going to be like this way.
I'm sure back in cave person days, interactions were totally different. Um, so yeah, so I, there can be a tendency to think that humans are always a certain way, uh, but over time they can adapt.
[00:22:00] Marco Ciappelli: Absolutely. And, and there are certain culture, I think they're more used to that, um, to I think actually the Japanese culture about giving a soul to every object that is there from a religious perspective.
And I love that because ultimately we're still all made from the same. Chemistry, right? And, and, uh, and I think I liked that, uh, quite a bit. I'm fascinated by it. Um, so moving forward, maybe we need to look back.
[00:22:34] Bruce Y. Lee: Yeah, I had a very, very deep conversation with, with a toilet when I was in a few years ago. If you've ever been to Tokyo, you'll see, uh, they have these smart toilets to do all kinds of things.
Like there are all these buttons on the side. And I remember the first time I was like, I just want to flush this toilet. I just want to flush. I don't want to like heat it. I don't want to vibrate it. You know, I don't want all these things. So yeah, the technology there is, is quite impressive.
[00:22:59] Marco Ciappelli: So, yeah, but not only the technology, but it goes back to the way I think that they interact with considering everything part of.
The, the, I mean, when you assume that even a tree or a stone has a sole, I think it's already changing the soul perspective. Maybe it opens you to be more okay if you're gonna have a breakfast with a cube because Yeah, still got some kind of, uh, of a so in there, and I, I go back to what you said at the beginning that maybe, and I, I'm convinced we're more than those five senses that are easy to, to see, and there is a lot.
More behind it, and I think we can evolve into that. I don't know if with the help of technology or not, but we're definitely going there. I have an experience years ago. I was in Singapore for RSA security and one of the guest of honor was Sophia, the robot, and this is 2017. So it was Still just the head and then you can see kind of the wire coming out kind of weird to say I was pretty weird out and then I had a guess that she was the one she's a comedian that is part of the team that gives Sophia another robot like that the personality.
So there are humans that decide this is personality of this robot. So they, they work together the way that they would answer to certain things. If they're going to be sarcastic, you know, kind of like give a guideline of, uh, the way they talk, the way they express themselves. So I don't know if we're ever going to arrive to the robot that is going to have his own personality, but.
I'm not, uh, I'm not going to say that it's not going to happen, and I'm not going to say I'm excited about it. I'm not going to say I'm not excited about it. So how do you feel about that?
[00:25:04] Bruce Y. Lee: Well, it's interesting. I think in what we always talk about technology is neither good nor bad. It's really depends on how it's used.
And I think that, um, you know, we can see advantages of each of these developments and, and evolution, and we can also see disadvantages. Um, so, you know, if you can develop, uh, a robot or technology with a human interface, You know, a very strong human interface that includes all those, uh, different types of characteristics, both the conscious and unconscious that sort of tells you that, Oh, this is more human.
There can be tremendous advantages to that. You know, you can develop, uh, you know, we, we have to be realistic. Um, not everyone can get access. To the best people. So, you know, when it comes to a coach or those things like that, I mean, you know, if there's a shortage of people who can actually do a, do something well, then it's helpful to have the technology that can fill that gap.
Um, and that, so, uh, so, you know, in situations where you'd rather have. A robot, for instance, do something well rather than no human doing it or a human doing it very badly. Right. So on the flip side, though, uh, there are situations and interactions where a human is just going to be better. Um, and so there, an outstanding human will be better.
So if a human is really good at being empathetic, if a human is very good at being, you know, understanding, whom he or she is coaching or instructing somebody that that's probably going to be better than a robot. Um, so so you don't want to replace People like that. Um, so I guess the answer really depends on the situation.
Um, and also I can see advantages of people getting more used to different types of interfaces. So we'll go back to the cube. Uh, you know, if people get more used to talking to a cube, then I can see that as being beneficial because that will increase people, the avenues by which people can interact. Uh, you know, we've already seen it in society, right?
If you, if you went back. To like the eighties or even the nineties and told people that you're going to be carrying on devices where you're going to like, uh, you know, post something there and then people will respond to it and they'll do likes and things like that back in the eighties. People are like, what are you talking about?
And if you ask people like, like, for instance, if you told people that, Hey, there's just like Facebook or something like that and told them that concept, people be like, I'm not going to do that. Why should, why should I do that? But they changed, right? They adapted. So we've already seen that, how people adapt in terms of the way they interact and so, yeah, I could see people in directing and say, suddenly.
Yes, I, yes, I do want to have a deep conversation with a cube and, and, you know, that may be okay. It's, it may be okay if it expands people's abilities to communicate in different ways and interact, but it, it will be problematic if people start to lose touch with reality or they start losing the ability to interact with other humans.
Right. So that's one of the biggest worries is when people like they, all they know is how to interact via social media, that when you actually have to put two people together, they're like, they don't know what to say. So, um, so I think there there's with everything there's, there's positives and negatives.
So what we have to do is we have to manage the risks and we have to steer things in direction where it's most helpful for society.
[00:28:48] Marco Ciappelli: Well, you know, we talked a lot for two years, uh, all virtual. And then when we met, I think we did pretty good. We didn't need to talk in each other, a phone facing the other direction.
[00:29:01] Bruce Y. Lee: I realized that you were not a cube and you probably realized that I was not a cube or at least I was disguised as not a cube at the time.
[00:29:08] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. And that was exciting. Uh, jokes apart, you made me think something. So let's talk about the, let's go back in time. When the car arrived, and that's always a good example because we can go through the entire evolution up to the autonomous, uh, driving car by vehicles.
So there was fear, like, why do I want to trust some kind of mechanical? Thing with wheel when I have a relationship with my horse my carriage, I trust my horse my horse gonna be Helping me in taking care of things almost like having an autonomous vehicle if you're on a horse, I guess or a buggy But so then we go all the other way around we go on the driver's seat We trust the person sitting next to you trust you driving Correctly or not, but they do.
Now we're going to the car that drive itself, but funny, we didn't think about if we do an autonomous car, let's put it. I don't know. Do you remember the movie airplane? Let's put an autopilot like auto, the inflatable doll in the driver's seat, maybe gives people that are not actually driving the idea that there is a human or Autopilot.
Resembling a human taking control of the car. No, apparently we're quite fine. Okay. And having fun even way more than what they should do. People that drive a Tesla to just say, um, autopilot, uh, and I'm going to take a nap. You're trusting really the machine. You don't need the car. It certainly doesn't look like a, like a human.
Or like a cube, which I trust a lot today. So that that's interesting. We, we do trust the machine with our life and it doesn't need to look human. So I think we're kind of funny. I think humans are funny.
[00:31:12] Bruce Y. Lee: Humans are, are what, um, humans are used to what they're used to.
[00:31:17] Marco Ciappelli: So I think, you know, and that I'm going to quote you on the title.
[00:31:22] Bruce Y. Lee: Yeah. I think, you know, rapid, dramatic change can be tough for. But you know, it's all about homeostasis. I think, I think humans have an inherent desire or need for homeostasis, which basically means like everything sort of stays level and it stays at a certain level. And that's why we've seen repeatedly that the way to actually Um, help behavior changes.
You got to do it gradually. You got to move to another level and then another level and another level. And then after a while, you've, you've, if you look back, you're like, wow, I've actually traveled so far. I'm actually quite different. Whereas, you know, in many cases, behavioral changes is difficult. Like you can't say tomorrow, I'm just going to, there are people who can do this, but, you know, and people like quick, quick things, cold turkey, but.
For most people you need to do the kind of the gradual change. Uh, so similarly, yeah, I think humans, humans get used to certain things. Yeah, this is actually, you know, we don't even have to look at tech specifically for this. Let's look at, uh, appearances, you know, ranging from, you know, physical appearance to like clothes and all those things like that.
Like the way fads change over the years, you know, you could take. You know, what people consider attractive now is very different from what people consider attractive, you know, in the twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, right? Because people were used to something different back then. Um, so it's all the same.
Uh, it's just that what you take a technology lens, it's, it's, it looks a little different, but it isn't. It's, it's, it's a matter of humans becoming habituated with something.
[00:33:03] Marco Ciappelli: I agree. I think we got to the point of this, which is maybe there is not the right or wrong. It's, it's about giving a time eventually to, to get used to things.
And I think I strongly believe that what you said, I mean, we could definitely start interacting with. Non human resembling technology. I'm going to go back to technology because you look back into the past and I think it's clear that we can adapt given enough time. Now, those that make the decision, they may decide that.
We're gonna do robots that look like human and there is not much you can do about it But I know for a fact that it's really interesting how we a lot of robotic research They're inspired less by human but more like from the animal kingdom the insect world because They can do things that certainly human can't.
If you want to do something that crawl, uh, in, in very small opening, you definitely can't have it with two arms and two legs. You need to have some sort of a snake or some sort of a tarantula so I think the inspiration come in many forms.
Now that you're going to go on a date with one of those robot, then I don't know, but I will go with a cube. No problem. For sure. I'm going to have to write an article about my life, my life with a cube.
[00:34:38] Bruce Y. Lee: That would be an interesting angle, so to speak.
[00:34:40] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, let's see what I come up with. Well, Bruce, this this was fun. We kind of stick with one topic for a change, and we look at it from different aspects. We didn't set the title today of our series So this is the time where we connect the carbon the cell and what is that other one?
[00:35:01] Bruce Y. Lee: This carbon the cell
[00:35:03] Marco Ciappelli: the silicon Silicon. Yes. So I think we kind of cover that quite well today.
[00:35:10] Bruce Y. Lee: We covered the cube too. Quite a lot.
[00:35:13] Marco Ciappelli: Quite a lot. I don't usually do a cover. For an episode, but I'm thinking I'll go talk to CHAT GPT DALI 3 and tell him to give me a cube that has a podcast and what's this, what's going to come up with? Probably a cube with a microphone. I'm going to make that prediction.
[00:35:31] Bruce Y. Lee: Well, Marco, I'm, I'm, I'm picturing you hosting a party and you walk into the party and there's nothing but cubes all over the place.
[00:35:41] Marco Ciappelli: That could be an episode of South Park, probably. That'd be kind of fun. All right, Bruce. Thank you so much for another interesting conversation in your bar. Always a pleasure to come in there.
I still don't know why there is not enough people. Actually, barely one person in there, which is you. We got to do something about that. Maybe I'll send you some cubes.
[00:36:04] Bruce Y. Lee: Send me some cubes, I'll station them in each of the chairs over here.
[00:36:09] Marco Ciappelli: Alright everybody, I hope you had a good time. I know if we did.
And you're going to share this episode, subscribe, because once a month we get together, Bruce and I, and we have this weird, weird, uncanny conversation sometimes. But we hope we make you think and you'll come back for more. Take care everybody.
[00:36:28] Bruce Y. Lee: Thanks everyone.