Marco and Colin discuss the role of technology in the legal ecosystem, discussing automation, document review, legal operations, and the use of data in driving analytics and decision-making.
Guest: ✨ Colin S. Levy, Author & Director of Legal at Malbek [@HelloMalbek]
On Linkedin | https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinslevy/
On Twitter | https://twitter.com/Clevy_Law
Website | https://www.colinslevy.com/
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Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
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Episode Introduction
In this episode of the Redefining Society Podcast, host Marco Ciappelli explores the intersection of the legal ecosystem and generative AI with guest Colin S. Levy, author of the book "The Legal Tech Ecosystem: Innovation, Advancement & the Future of Law Practice."
Marco begins by expressing his curiosity about the impact of generative AI on the legal profession and how it is transforming the legal ecosystem. He admits his limited knowledge in this area and is excited to have Colin, an expert in legal tech, share his insights and answer his questions.
Colin, a lawyer with over 11 years of experience, explains how he became interested in legal tech and why he decided to write the book. He discusses the resistance in the legal industry to embrace technology and the disconnect between the legal profession and the dynamics of the world. Colin emphasizes the importance of recognizing the impact of technology on all aspects of society and not ignoring it.
Marco and Colin dive into the role of technology in the legal ecosystem, discussing automation, document review, legal operations, and the use of data in driving analytics and decision-making. They also touch on the need for guardrails and regulations in the use of AI in the legal profession to ensure accuracy, confidentiality, and ethical considerations.
The conversation then shifts towards the book itself, with Marco asking Colin about his target audience and the purpose of the book. Colin explains that the book is intended for legal professionals who want to learn more about legal tech and understand how technology is impacting the law. However, he also highlights that the book can be valuable for individuals from the tech space who want to gain insight into how tech is changing the legal landscape.
As the conversation comes to a close, Marco asks Colin if there is anything he would change in the book now that a few months have passed. Colin reflects on the rise of generative AI and how it has evolved since he wrote the book. He expresses the potential for writing another book focused specifically on AI in the legal profession.
In conclusion, this Redefining Society Podcast episode provides a thought-provoking discussion on the integration of technology and the legal ecosystem. It highlights the importance of embracing technology while being mindful of its limitations, understanding the need for guardrails and regulations, and the ongoing evolution of technology in the legal space.
ENJOY it, share, and subscribe to Redefining Society Podcast.
About the Book
“A leading voice in the world of legal technology, Colin Levy has written a thoughtful, wide-ranging, and invaluable guide to the increasingly important field of legal tech.” –David Lat, founder, Above the Law
The legal landscape is evolving at an unprecedented pace, with the seismic shifts of recent years demanding a fresh perspective on the role of technology and innovation within the legal profession. The Legal Tech Ecosystem delves into this essential transformation, shedding light on the crucial interplay between law and technology in today’s complex world.
At its core, this book addresses the profound changes unfolding in the legal domain, driven by macro-economic forces. These changes have placed an ever-increasing burden on legal departments to accomplish more with fewer resources. A quartet of pillars—the explosive growth of regulations, the challenges posed by globalization, the convergence of risk dimensions, and the pressure on corporate profits—has created an environment where legal professionals must adapt swiftly to succeed.
Author Colin S. Levy, an esteemed legal practitioner with diverse experiences spanning publishing, education, technology, and cyber security, serves as an invaluable guide through this dynamic landscape. His unique insights, honed across industries and organizational scales, offer readers a deep understanding of the intricate nexus where law, technology, and business converge.
While emerging legal technology has provided effective solutions to these challenges, The Legal Tech Ecosystem emphasizes that technology alone is not sufficient. Legal departments must undergo a fundamental digital transformation, rethinking their structures, processes, and approaches to truly capitalize on the benefits technology brings. The real value lies in data—capturing it, analyzing it, and deriving transformative insights from it.
Colin has emerged as a leading thinker in this space, sharing his perspective through podcasts, writings, and insightful commentary. His expertise illuminates the path forward for legal professionals seeking to thrive in this era of change. Agility, flexibility, and innovation will define success, and this book is the perfect companion for those seeking to embrace the future with confidence.
As the legal profession evolves, those equipped with the knowledge and insights provided by The Legal Tech Ecosystem will be at the forefront of this transformation. The changing legal environment demands proactive engagement, and this book, curated by one of the field’s luminaries, offers the guidance needed to navigate the exciting journey ahead.
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Resources
The Legal Tech Ecosystem: Innovation, Advancement & the Future of Law Practice: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CK9Q86ZV
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Book | The Legal Tech Ecosystem: Innovation, Advancement & the Future of Law Practice | A conversation with Author Colin S. Levy | Redefining Society with Marco Ciappelli
Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording, as errors may exist. At this time, we provide it “as it is,” and we hope it can be helpful for our audience.
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[00:00:00]
Marco Ciappelli: Well, hello, everybody. This is Marco Ciappelli. Welcome to another episode of Redefining Society podcast. And today we're going to talk about a, an industry, let's call it an industry, an area that I haven't actually discussed, in terms of what is happening [00:01:00] to that profession and generative AI. As you know, we talk about generative AI a lot and you can be sure that is affecting many, area and, the legal ecosystem is most certainly one of those.
I gotta be honest. I don't know much about it. I have some ideas in my mind on the way that it can affect it. But when I saw this book and I heard about our guest today, I Colin Levy. I was really excited to be the one that is the person that doesn't know anything about that in the room and ask a lot of questions.
So I'm excited for this conversation. Colin, welcome to the show for everybody that is just listening and they haven't seen you on the video yet.
Colin S. Levy: Thanks for having me as a guest. I'm excited about this conversation.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. So let's start. I can think about So many different things [00:02:00] that can happen.
I had a conversation about movie and artist and copyrights and how artificial intelligence is getting into, privacy, so I can always see the legal aspect of things, but not being a lawyer, not being in that industry, I would like to, get a point here, an overview of what that is. What does this mean for our, um, for our society, obviously, and the way we deal with the legal system.
So before we go there, let's start with you, who is Colin, a little background about yourself.
Colin S. Levy: Sure. I'm Colin Levy. I am a, um, the author of the Legal Tech Ecosystem, which came out in October. I am a lawyer. I've been a lawyer now for. Over 11 years. Um, I keep losing track of how many years it's been, so much has happened over the [00:03:00] years primarily focused in the tech industry and that in turn prompted me to want to learn more about legal tech and then write the book.
Um, introducing the reader to this wondrous evolving world where tech and law meet. I also am frequently asked to write or speak or both about that evolving relationship and its impacts upon both the business and practice of law.
Marco Ciappelli: Perfect. So you, are an expert in all the things that I'm interested in.
Let's start with something that maybe goes back before you were a lawyer. Were you always interested in technology? Is that why you decided to Kind of focus on that aspect of things with your profession.
Colin S. Levy: So it's a funny story, actually, because when I was younger I feared technology. I saw it as intrusive.
I saw it as annoying. I saw it as clunky and hard to use, but I also [00:04:00] accepted it as something that was here to stay. So I had better get used to it and adapt. And over time I then learned how useful technology can be. How much more accessible it has become. And that prompted me to want to learn more about its impacts upon all aspects of society.
And then eventually as I decided to pursue becoming a lawyer and then started practicing law, I really was interested in. First of all, why the legal industry seemed to kind of consider itself immune to the dynamics of the world, and more specifically, why it seemed to act as if technology had no part to play in the practice and business of law.
And I thought, well, surely I can't be the only person who sees this massive disconnect. And as it turns out, I wasn't the only person who saw this disconnect and was trying to do something about it, which prompted me to engage with some of those folks, learn from them, and then as I learned more, started to share what I was learning with others.
Which really kind of jump started my, [00:05:00] journey into the legal tech world.
Marco Ciappelli: So more and more, just following to what you say, kind of like this resistance, I just wrote a piece for my newsletter last night, actually, I don't know when this is going to air, but people can check it out about how. I was talking about the myth of Prometheus and the fire, and I was comparing it to generative AI with the idea of then the risk of being punished for spilling the technology flame to humanity, but also the idea of not refusing it without knowing it with the fear of the unknown, it's probably the worst thing that we could do with that.
So we need a balance and with the fact that now every business. I don't know if you agree with this, but for me, every business is a technology business in a way or in another. So, obviously, business, an individual, needs lawyers. So, I don't know how do you think people thought about [00:06:00] resisting and being immune, off the grid, let's say, about technology in your profession?
It's hard to believe.
Colin S. Levy: Hard to believe, and yet, at the same time, in some ways, it's not necessarily that hard to believe because, um, As someone who was taught at a traditional law school in the U. S., had a, you know, what it was to think and be a lawyer, the legal industry, unless the U. S. is very much, at least historically been tied down to tradition, how things have been done in the past.
And in many ways, my law school experience felt like a three year degree in legal history rather than a three year degree in what it was and what it is to be a lawyer. And so, you know, for that reason, I understand this. The resistance that has existed to technology and the desire to not adapt, and yet at the same time, [00:07:00] technology continues to evolve.
It doesn't really care about your feelings about it. It doesn't really. have an agenda other than the agenda of those who create these technologies and bring them upon the world. So I think, you know, if you want to resist technology, um, that's your choice and that's fine. But you know, you likely will be best served, you know, living as a loner in the woods, frankly.
Um, which again, there are some people who are happy with that, but I And I think many others who seek to be professionals in society today need to recognize that, to your point, technology is everywhere, is impacting everything and everyone in different ways. And so to ignore is kind of at your peril and detriment.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, can you give me and the audience couple of example of that are relevant for understanding how technology and. [00:08:00] And legal ecosystem are interwined and you can't ignore it.
Colin S. Levy: Yeah, absolutely. So for example now there are legal departments that have automated the creation of documents, automated the review of documents.
Both automated both of those things meaning that now they're not the ones doing that initial tactical work. It's actually technology doing it, which means that they're now able to save time and spend that time on actually negotiating or handling other more tricky matters where a larger degree of human judgment is required rather than these time consuming, repetitive routine tasks that are very easily automated.
Um, in addition, we've seen the rise of legal operations, which itself I think would not exist, but for in some ways the rise of technology and the need for people who can kind of translate and be the bridge between the business, the tech and the legal world. And so these folks in legal operations are [00:09:00] invaluable because they're the ones who are helping to evaluate technologies, evaluate processes and help align processes and technology together with the needs of the business.
So that business can move forward in a seamless way with all the functions that power the business Operating on the same level and aligned with the needs of one another.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, that makes sense. So I can see And like these in other profession. I had this conversation about AI in the medical field, for example, very similar to what you said in terms of resistance and a traditional kind of way to look at the profession, but also the incredible benefit that you get by using AI for the patient and for managing the incredible amount of data that you're dealing with.
But there are certain things that we all agree, probably from a medical perspective, that we may with. Consider not to use. So as you embrace and the legal, um, the [00:10:00] legal industry embrace, the AI, and as you say, they're using it. Do you see some that is a big no, like don't go there kind of tools that Maybe not the right thing to do.
Colin S. Levy: Well, I think context is really important here. So I wouldn't be hesitant to say yay or no or nay outright to any particular tool. However, I think that it's super important to be aware of the, of a few things, one that we're still in very, the very early stages of artificial telecoms, at least in terms of its.
accessibility stage, i. e. generative AI that is used by a lot of people. And so because of that, it still has limits, it still is imperfect and it still can't do everything well. It can do some things kind of well, can do other things, you know, fairly poorly, and it can do something somewhere in between of those two.
And so I think it's important to just be aware of the fact that While AI continues to evolve and get [00:11:00] better, you know, it's going to require experimentation and iterating upon what you're doing with it to get better at using it and figuring out how best can help you. At the same time, I think, you know, you don't want to ignore it, but you need to be aware of its benefits and limitations.
And with respect more specifically to the legal space, I think that a lot of these tools can be useful for summarizing documents and even potentially reviewing documents. But again, you want to be careful with what you information you share because of concerns around confidentiality and who's actually looking at the information you should share with these solutions.
And in addition, as we've seen, you know, most of these commonly accessible tools are not trained exclusively on legal data or even a lot of legal data. So there is definitely a tendency and the potential for it to provide you with inaccurate data that it see that could seemingly be accurate. But it isn't.
For example, we've seen lawyers who have used it to help draft briefs and it's come up with cases that you would think could possibly be [00:12:00] real but aren't. Um, and so I think that's, you know, just a emblematic of their limitations currently. But in addition, it's also emblematic of the fact that as users of these technologies, it's incumbent upon all of us to double check the work that is produced.
Because the fake cases that were created were not a function of the technology doing something it shouldn't have done. It did exactly what it was asked to do. But it was up to you to double check to make sure that, okay, these cases, are they real or are they not? So that's more of, I think, of an issue of competence than it is of a technology gone astray.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, you certainly don't want to have some generative AI hallucination when you're presenting a case or When you're judging a case. And I'm going to go right there. So one of the things that we learn, I think, that makes common sense, actually, it should be common sense, is that you don't, want to let the [00:13:00] AI decide automatically for you when it comes to people's life.
So from an ethical, philosophical perspective, giving a loan to someone, yes or not, it's Definitely good to have a person, a human being, reviewing that or even a committee. Same thing for other kind of decision. Now the, biases that have been used, that have been found in the way that we
You're bringing that back into the loop, so there is a hallucination. There are probably a lot of book that may not be legal, but transforming to legal, as you say, by the AI, but also. It's, a data that, and tell me if I'm wrong, it's not necessarily taken in the specific context of academic and judicial and review type of documents.[00:14:00]
And even if it is, it's not just for the United States. Different law in different states in the U. S., different experience from other country in the world, minority cases that may, again, be, Not the one that you want to get any inspiration from how do you handle this? I'm looking a little more of a macro level of society where if every lawyer gets into that and Then every judge every court start to doing that I can see a little bit of a cows if we don't have a guardrail.
So Big question, I guess you can Address what side you want. I know I kind of made very generic.
Colin S. Levy: Yeah, you know, I think that your question points to this increasingly important issue and one that I think is been of increased focus both by the EU as well as the US and like the other jurisdictions, which is [00:15:00] the fact that as these technologies evolve and as they exist now, there is a strong need for there to be Guardrails as you said, with respect to their usage.
Now, of course, the big challenge is, well, what should their guardrails be? How should they be enforced? How do we manage, balance the need for guardrails without stifling the creativity of people and the ingenuity of people when it comes to creating new AI solutions? And I think generally speaking, you know, you want to look at it from a perspective of Utility in terms of its usefulness to people and also the context in terms of what the solution is going to be used for.
For example, it's going to be used in a health context, you know, to analyze data, then you want to have pretty strong guardrails around its usage and have it double checked, you know, multiple times and so on. However, if it's, you know, to be used for, you know, summarizing a basic document or, you know, [00:16:00] looking at two different documents and then crafting, you know, an article or something, I don't think you need as stringent guardrails for that type of use case.
So I think, you know, the other additional challenge here is that I'm not sure one size fits all solution with guardrails makes a whole lot of sense. I think that you. have to come up with guardrails that are flexible and also that are adaptable, meaning that certain guardrails apply for certain circumstances, whereas others apply for other circumstances.
And that's challenging to do, but at the same time, I think, you know, we've been around technology long enough to kind of be aware of, kind of, where, you know, stringent, more stringent guardrails make sense. Someone's health someone's, you know, something that could dramatically impact their life in some permanent way, as opposed to, you know, some kind of basic task that likely wouldn't impact anyone in any kind of detrimental way.
But if the word I go wrong, that'd be a problem, but it would be one you could fix fairly easily. So I [00:17:00] think that just points to the fact that there needs to be some nuance here and you have to kind of approach it from a Practical as well as a pragmatic perspective
Marco Ciappelli: makes sense, and I think that I'm thinking the guardrail here are could be also very specific to the profession.
So what I'm thinking is, do you think there should be a regulation almost like a FDA approved pharmaceutical solution or drug to say, Okay, this can go to the market and can be used. And I'm making that. Reference to you guys in the legal system, you need to use tools that are fit to this, not, I don't know, thinking open source versus a, like a product that is reviewed and really known to be privacy.
I know you work a lot in cybersecurity too if I, remember well [00:18:00] from your bio. So all the security, privacy, issue controls that you may have in order to know that. Okay, this is, it's not even 100 percent the software or the tool, but again, some regulation. What's the role of regulation in this?
Colin S. Levy: Yeah, well, I think we've already seen, um, at least in the US with 40 plus states having this duty of tech competence, meaning that lawyers are now ethically bound to understand the relevant risks and benefits of.
Certain technologies that they may, be applicable to their practice and or use cases. Um, and I think that will, that points to is a need for, yes, there, there needs to be guardrails that are specifically crafted for certain industries that are more, um, Impactful upon people in terms of how they operate and what they can and can't do.
So [00:19:00] again, you know the process of crafting these rules and regulations and guardrails is something going to be challenging considering not only do you have to take into account what I've said earlier, but also the fact that these technologies are continuing to evolve. So you need to ensure there's some degree of flexibility and adaptability into these rules.
And it's developed with the right. Level of expertise as well, because they don't want people who don't know what they're don't know a lot about what they're regulating to be tasked with regulating these things. Because as we've seen in the past, that type of approach tends to lead to overhanded, um, regulation and, or things that miss the mark.
And then you sort of, you're left playing catch up. And when it comes to technology, you don't want to be in the position of playing catch up. Cause by the time you have to play catch up, technology is already well past wherever you're trying to catch up to.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, and we are catching up. Let's be honest.
There's always that resistance and then everybody jump on the [00:20:00] wagon and but yeah, you're right. By the time you're dead, the train already left the station. So that's where we are right now, I think. Um, let's talk about the book in particular. So who did you write it for? Is it for other legal professionals or for more larger societal and understanding of how um, One affect the other and and why did you decide to write this book?
What was your spark for that?
Colin S. Levy: Right. Well I'll start with the second question first. I wrote the book because for a couple of reasons. One, I'd always wanted to write a book. I just didn't know when, where, what, how, et cetera. B, writing for me has always been something that has been Very therapeutic and very helpful and I've always loved to write.
And as it happened in 2020 when the world was kind of shut down for the most part, um, I had a little more time on my hands than I imagined. [00:21:00] And so I decided to start writing this book with the intent of, I had all these experiences, all this, you know, material to go off of, having had a lot of conversations with different people in the space and thought, you know what, I think this book makes sense as a helpful, non technical, broad, and accessible introduction to the world of legal tech.
Because that really is what I have been trying to do, largely with my other efforts in this space, is to inform and inspire others about legal tech in an accessible way. And so with that in mind, I wrote the book, and the book's sort of real intended audience are ideally legal professionals who either are wanting to learn more about legal tech, Or are just kind of, you know, wanting to learn more about how technology is impacting the law and want to see what they need to know with respect to remaining relevant and valuable.
But, you know, you could also make the case that the book could be for those who are sort of on the outside looking in on [00:22:00] tech and, or on legal, I should say, and are from the tech space, but wanting to know more about how tech is impacting law. So, you know, it's really intended for those audiences. And again it's something that's really intended to pique your interest and.
Hopefully lead you to wanna do more and read more and learn more about things in the space.
Marco Ciappelli: And it's funny, 'cause going back to the point that technology moves so fast, it was only a few days ago that it was the first year anniversary of chat, GPT, and I had so many conversation about it that I feel like it's been around forever, almost like the smartphone or the computer.
And when you wrote. What do you say you started writing this book? We weren't even talking much in term of a commercial use of generative AI. So I want to take this opportunity to make you reflect maybe and tell me if there is already something that you would [00:23:00] change in your book now that a few months gone by.
And maybe we then from there we can proceed into a little bit of what I love to do, which is a vision of. The future, a little guest, a little time machine travel. So let's start with that. Would you already change something that you think?
Colin S. Levy: So, you know, it's funny as I started writing the book and then probably by the third year of writing it when it was really close, um, I did have to adjust it for the rise of generative AI it going forward, you know, looking back on it, would I include more about AI potentially, um, you know, I really.
One of the things I really intended with the book was to make it as sort of timeless as possible in the sense that it wasn't going to be super outdated by the time it finally arrived, um, which is why I shy away from anything that was still evolving for the most part. That being said, is, you know, certainly would I write more about AI in the book?
I think [00:24:00] so. And is there potential for me to write another book that perhaps is a little more AI focused? Yeah, of course. Um, I do love to write, so there definitely is that potential as well, and that's something that I always find exciting about tech in general is that it's always evolving and changing and, um, and challenging our perceptions of kind of what can and can't be done.
Marco Ciappelli: For sure. And as you say this, it makes me think that I have focused this entire conversation on AI, but tech, it's other tools too. So maybe I should go backward a little bit, rewind and ask you what other What sort of technology in a wider range are you addressing in the book, apart from AI and generative AI?
Colin S. Levy: Yeah, so I address, you know, sort of the, you know, the broad space in terms of automation, managing information, managing [00:25:00] documents, um, how to sort of data, use of data to drive analytics and decision making. Those are some of the things I include in the book. It's really intended, again, to kind of give you a little taste of these different areas within legal tech and also give you an idea of how they're all connected to one another.
Marco Ciappelli: Makes sense, and they are for sure. So, from the past to the present, now let's go our last five minutes or so into the future. What do you see happening? Again, I'm not going to interview you in a year from now and pinpoint if you made a mistake in prediction, but I'm very curious. I always put my thinking hat on.
And yeah, based on what you know, what you see and all the conversation that you have, I don't even want to put a timeline, but you know, it could be Which is a long time in technology anyway.
Colin S. Levy: Yeah I think, that going forward [00:26:00] we're going to see a increased emphasis on the use of data. Um, it's collection, it's use, it's analysis.
I think we're going to continue to see AI, particularly generative AI, play a larger and larger role. And the automation of not just work tasks, but personal tasks as well in terms of, you know, turning lights on and off managing home security, um, managing power usage and all sorts of different areas.
Um, and I think, you know, down the line, we're going to see. More sort of tools that automate our daily lives and ask us and don't require us to do as much manual work, um, to extent to which any of us really does any manual work with respect to our personal lives. Um, and we've already started to see, I think, some of that in terms of cars specifically and, you know, self driving cars and automated functionality in cars, but there's still a lot, I think, to be worked on in part [00:27:00] given, I think, The inconsistency and unpredictability of humans, as well as the fact that, um, you know, any technology is based on a number of different assumptions, and those assumptions can sometimes be way off.
And sometimes you don't necessarily know what's going to be off until you start testing.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. And there's other things that we thought probably. We're never going to come as an issue like, fake voices and the way that, you know, again, to go back a little bit into cybercrime different kind of phishing and of course the news and how you're going to handle when there is an entire manipulated video that is created by generative AI.
I, can't even think how much. Complex must be now to think about regulation and reinventing regulation. And so do you think that the legal [00:28:00] aspect of the regulation and making the law that can keep up with the pace of technology, it's feasible? Or is there a way? Are we going to have generative AI making the laws for us so that we can stay ahead of the game?
Colin S. Levy: Well, I think there's always going to be a need for, I think, human judgment in terms of making laws. And when it comes to keeping up with technology, to something you said earlier, I think that rather than trying to keep up, I think a more realistic approach is to always Keep it in sight ahead of you because technology is ahead of all of us and it's continuing to be that way.
So rather than trying to keep up, which I don't think is necessarily realistic, I think it's more important to just keep it in sight always ahead of us and be aware of the fact that there's going to, you know, be mistakes along the way. And there's going to be a need for continued experimentation and learning because for all of us, learning, especially when it comes to use of technology [00:29:00] is a lifelong process.
In other words, it never stops.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. And how about, um, to finish with, um, yeah, I just finished with a call for, the book, like, give me an elevator pitch for, the book and why people should get it and why it's important. Yeah, absolutely.
Colin S. Levy: Well, I think, um, first of all, the book is very accessible.
It's in Kindle, hard copy and soft cover. It's also written from a non technical background. So it's very accessible. It's a easy read has plenty of resources for future reading. And the book really, again, is a high level, non technical introduction to the world of legal tech and how legal tech and technology is impacting business, people, processes, and how each component, each one of those things is really interdependent, dependent upon one another.
And the book really illustrates that through. [00:30:00] quotations from those working at the front lines of the field, as well as my own experience being in the field. And so I really think that people will find it very informative as well as inspiring in a way that makes technology far less intimidating than it might otherwise be.
Marco Ciappelli: Awesome. I really enjoyed this conversation. I think in Could be good to have a couple more maybe next year and as we move forward and catch up on where we're moving in with I know there is already a CHAT GPT 4. 5 in the beta. So that's gonna be fun. So Colin, I want to thank you so much for this and It opened my mind, which is a good and a bad thing because now i'm gonna end up wanted to know more about this, um, legal and tech aspect of society.
So I want to thank you for that and I want to thank you for being part of of the show.
Colin S. Levy: Thanks so much for having me. I really enjoyed this [00:31:00] conversation and certainly do hope to have more conversations in the future as things evolve.
Marco Ciappelli: Absolutely. And I know you prefer to be a guest than a host. So I'll take that into consideration as well for everybody else.
I hope you enjoyed this conversation. I think it was understandable for everybody, even if you're not a tech expert or a legal expert and stay tuned. You'll find all the links for the book to connect with Colin in the notes for this podcast or video. depending on how you're consuming this. So stay tuned.
Subscribe for Defining Society podcast with me, Marco Ciappelli. Thank you, Colin. It was really great. Thank you.
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