Redefining Society and Technology Podcast

In this episode of the Redefining Society podcast, host Marco Ciappelli welcomes Marga Hoek, author of the book "Tech For Good." The conversation dives into the concept of using technology as the solution to the world's greatest challenges and explores the idea that it is not just an option but the only option.

The discussion touches on the blurred lines between reality and virtuality, the impact of technology on society, and the need for a shift in the way businesses approach their purpose. Marga Hoek explains how companies can make a positive impact on both the planet and people, highlighting the importance of collaboration and the potential of technology for good.

The conversation also goes into the Fourth Industrial Revolution and its significance in redefining our industrial systems.

Throughout the episode, Marga Hoek emphasizes the urgency of addressing global challenges such as plastic pollution and the need for solutions that meet the scale of these challenges.

The episode concludes with a discussion on the public opinion surrounding technology and the role of education in driving change. Ultimately, this episode serves as an inspiring call to action, urging listeners to imagine a future where technology is leveraged to create positive change and secure a sustainable planet for generations to come.

Be sure to enjoy it, share, and subscribe for many more conversation about Society & Technology.

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Resources

Tech For Good: Imagine Solving the World’s Greatest Challenges (Book): https://www.amazon.com/Tech-Good-Imagine-Greatest-Challenges/dp/103249073X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1MDRM3S3AG10I&keywords=Tech+for+Good%3A+Imagine+Solving+the+World%E2%80%99s+Greatest+Challenges&qid=1695834334&sprefix=tech+for+good+imagine+solving+the+world+s+greatest+challenges+%2Caps%2C235&sr=8-1

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Episode Transcription

Book | Tech For Good: Imagine Solving the World’s Greatest Challenges | A conversation with Author Marga Hoek | Redefining Society with Marco Ciappelli

Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording, as errors may exist. At this time, we provide it “as it is,” and we hope it can be helpful for our audience.

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Marco Ciappelli: Hello, everybody. This is Marco Ciappelli. Welcome to another episode of Redefining Society podcast, where of course, as the title say, we try to redefine or at least understand where society is going. Um, I like to talk about the fact that the line between what is real and what is virtual, it's very blurry [00:01:00] nowadays.

And also, With that, the way that technology become more physical and embed in our life, sometimes in our body, and definitely in the way that we communicate with each other, a big, uh, big topic right there. And, uh, we're trying to figure out, I think, a way lately to kind of fix, maybe, uh, come back a little bit and, uh. take a different road or find a better path towards a future that technology will be serving us as human because I may think that we haven't done a really good job and maybe see where we were going and those blinking lights and funny noises from technology may have been kind of driving us into maybe not a planned So all this said, I have a guest today I'm really excited.

Her name is Marga Hoke [00:02:00] and, uh, she wrote books. She's a speaker. She's an expert into, uh, well, her last book is about doing good things with tech and how business can think, for. A future that is not just probably about making money, but actually be sure that they make money That's what company do but also make good and maybe again fix what we've done wrong So i've said my point already so i'm going to shut up now and i'm going to introduce marga.

Welcome to the show

Marga Hoek: Well, thank you, Mark. It's a pleasure to be here. And I love the title, Redefining Society.

Marco Ciappelli: It's a never ending challenge. Once you think you've done it, you just have to start again.

Marga Hoek: Absolutely. Yeah. But I like the word redefining because that's a much better word than improving.

Marco Ciappelli: That's right.

See, let's, let's talk about that. But first, I want to hear who you are[00:03:00] in a few words and, uh, introduce yourself to the audience.

Marga Hoek: Thank you, Marco. With pleasure. And you said a couple of things already. So I consider myself a business person. I think that's important rather than an expert. Um, I am a three time CEO.

I, uh, led companies, small, mid sized, listed. And throughout that period, I came to the realization that actually you can lead a business profitable, but at the same time have a positive impact on planet and people. So it wasn't an or or situation, but that actually you can positively synergize the both.

And to me, that was so important that from that point on, it became my mission in life, you could say, to actually prove that this is possible and to scale up business for good throughout the [00:04:00] world and do whatever it takes to, to help that movement. And I do that in multiple ways. I do that by mentoring at companies with CEOs.

I do that by writing books that hopefully are an inspiration to many, by writing books that are accessible, that have A lot of real life business cases, because you know, you can tell a lot of theory to people, but it's about, you know, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. So you want to hear about companies that actually have done things, um, to speak around the world, to the board of consultants, whatever is necessary on that journey.

But my red thread, my core, is to demonstrate and to share how Business for Good is good business. And technology, as you just touched upon that topic, Marco, is a very big component on it and should be an even bigger component in how we do Business for Good.

Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, I think there is a lot of places where we can start [00:05:00] this conversation and I, I I'm going to go straight in the philosophical aspect of things, meaning, when somebody think about the business, it's, it's always, it's all about the money.

Right. It's, uh, especially when it's no more, it's small business and you go to the board, it kind of lose that, that humanity in a way. And you just need to look at the quarter. What is coming next is the company growing. How is the investors reacting to that? And, and because that is the goal, many times I feel we, we kind of went off track to, you know, no matter what we do, we just need to make money, even if we're.

Making decisions that may not be so good. And I also feel that things are changing now because companies are more transparent. They need to be more transparent. A brand is not anymore what you think it is, is what you do with it and what the perception of it. So are things changing faster nowadays, company are embracing [00:06:00] this new way of

Marga Hoek: doing things.

Well, embracing is, uh, is a strong word. I think, but well, you know, Marco, I always want whoever I speak to, um, to be realistic about the size of the challenge. So I'm always a bit wary when we say, you know, things have changed a lot and it's going so well, because if, if things are go well, we move forward in the right direction.

And currently on many of our global challenges, you know, I often refer to the sustainable development goals because they're so concrete and it's a holistic system of what sustainability actually means. But on a lot of those, we're actually still walking backwards. And the size of our solutions must meet the size of our challenges in the end.

Because otherwise we're doing things a little bit better. It's like, Oh, well, it's a good operation, but still the patient has [00:07:00] deceased, you know, kind of a thing, which may be a bit drastic comparison, but it's true. So let me give you an example. So for instance, if we talk about, um, plastics, let's take a little bit of another topic than climate change, because with the COP 28, you know, all the media are filled with climate change.

So let's talk about plastics. We still have a lot of single use plastics around the world. Currently, those kinds of plastics, we recycle less than 9%. Less than 9%. I don't have to explain to you how our plastic soup, already twice the size of Germany or France, if I compare to some European countries, you can do the maps in the US, how much, you know, is being added to this every day.

So if we don't radically change with that [00:08:00] 8. 9%, the plastic soup over the next decade is going to grow with 40 percent for zero. Because we have upcoming economies, we have still a world growing population, and so on and so forth. So to really solve, you know, the plastic soup problem, and to not pollute anymore, we have to do 40%, at least, to stay at the same level.

And I give this example because many people think, oh, now we're on our way with the circle economy, and things go into the right direction. And yeah, we see some change. But as I said, the size of our solutions must meet the size of the challenge. That's what we should aim for.

Marco Ciappelli: So you think people would know that by now, but I feel like the news sometimes are a little bit, um, uh, misleading in a way, like, like you said, you know, we're [00:09:00] doing good, but better, better than what?

Right. So I love it. It's very drastic example. The one you brought up with it. Yeah, it's good. I know.

Marga Hoek: And it's not to depress

Marco Ciappelli: those students. No, no, no. But it is the truth. I mean, we have to, we have to face it. Yeah, we have to face it. Now, I know that you talk about The Fourth Industrial Revolution.

And, and I think it's a very important topic because everybody I'm assuming knows what, the famous Industrial Revolution back in the late 1800, I mean 1700 was. And so how do you actually define the Fourth Industrial Revolution? What is the third two and the second? So a little bit of history on what this change in our industrial system is.

Marga Hoek: Oh, well, let's go through a history lesson, but the first two industrial revolutions were, of course, about the steam and to get fabrics to the production going. And. And we're actually a few [00:10:00] big inventions with big impact. Then we have the digitalization, which actually is not finished, huh? Because we have not everybody connected around the world.

So that's important to say, because the third industrial revolution in that sense is a prerequisite for the fourth. So the third was getting everybody digital. Now the fourth industrial revolution is very much different than all of the former three in that sense, that it's Uh, like a toolkit, you could say, of many different technology groups, and within those groups, you have a wide range of subs, so to say, variations of that technology.

So it's a wide range of technologies. Part of those technologies are digital. And part of those technologies are actually physical. And I heard you say earlier something about blurry and blending. And [00:11:00] actually, what happens with the Fourth Industrial Revolution is that all of these technologies blend and are applied as, you know, a variety of tools in a toolkit in combination come up as solutions.

So they're not often used by, on an individual basis. But in combination with others, and as you mentioned, I wrote the book Tech for Good, which is just out, just released, and that distinguishes eight groups of technologies like artificial intelligence and data, which is digital, 3D printing, physical, advanced materials can be both, robotics, and robotics.

Extended realities, autonomous vehicles and drones, blockchain and space tech. You know, you can make a structure in any way you want, but those are, this is a good structure for the most important technology groups. And, you know, like autonomous vehicles on drones, of course, we have the [00:12:00] cars, we have the, by now autonomous trains, trams, drones.

So you can see within every technology group, it's a variety. So that is, Very different from former industrial revolutions, which was, you know, one, two, three, you know, big inventions that changed everything. But now it's a wide range of technologies, which often makes it confusing for people as well.

Marco Ciappelli: Yeah.

And I'm glad you, you explained that. Yeah. And we don't need to go in the history of, of these, but I think that the picture you painted, it's complexity. For sure, it's more complex, many more ingredient if you, if you will, which I feel I envision as a matrix, right? Like you can start seeing between the zero and the one to, to see some kind of a pattern here where it requires, correct me if I'm wrong, collaboration and synergy between different industry as it is a blend of.

Reality and, and digital, [00:13:00] uh, analog and digital, let's say it also required to put together different expertise and different technology to really focus on something. And is this the big challenge of their company out there that are leading the way already? Some example that you can bring of how it's not just one machine that make the difference.

It's.

Marga Hoek: Exactly. It's not one, one machine. Um, I like that point you touched on Marco of collaboration. That is key. Um, if you want to implement these technologies, especially if you want to do it, like I propose for good, and we can talk about what that means specifically, maybe a little bit later, but you know, it's impossible as one company to have all that knowledge or to have access to, to those technologies and do it timely.

Because imagine if we want to invent and you know and develop everything ourselves, it would take way too long and our planet can't wait. But besides [00:14:00] that, also your competitive position can't wait. So, uh, you have to be quick. It's complex. There's a lot you can do. So collaboration is key. So interestingly, what you see is that, um, industrial companies, for instance, see collaboration with tech companies.

I'd like to give you a simple example between Unilever and Google Cloud, for instance, and in this case, Google Cloud is helping Unilever to make sure that what they have pledged, and in this case, meaning to end deforestation. Regarding the palm oil, for instance, to have eyes on the ground, because they can't have that physically, but with Google Cloud, they can literally have eyes on the ground and to make sure that they live up to their promise.

So it's not only to create [00:15:00] business models. But also to create solutions so that what they promise to do or what they set themselves out to do, that they can actually deliver it. So in that sense, also tech is an enabler for strategies of companies. And you see a lot of, you know, surprising collaborations between companies so that they can actually leverage technology for their purposes.

To give you an example, Many architects now work with the German technology, ProSolver. And that's an advanced technology, advanced materials. And what that material does is literally eat the smoke out of the air. So it's called a smoke eating facade on that building. Now that architect or that construction company can try, you know, set up R& D and try to develop that, that would take [00:16:00] way too long.

So they see collaboration. with the tech company that has developed this and then apply it. And those collaborations have sometimes two companies, but sometimes even two, three, or four. And also You know, um, out of the comfort zone collaborations with NGOs or think tanks or, um, inventors arise because that's the way to get things done, of course.

Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, and I think we need to touch on, you said, you know, tech for good, but let's define that, like, what does it mean to do good and, and how you envision this, so there is the technology to do it, and then we can maybe go into the ethics of, What is good, right? I mean, for me right now, we need to do certain things to save the planet.

Um, right? So that's not even a choice. Is it, you know, like, Oh, what am I good? What kind of cake am I going to eat today? Uh, this is [00:17:00] good for me. This is not, it's like, no, there's one cake. Otherwise there's no cake.

Marga Hoek: So maybe we can take it from, uh, the cake being the world, you know, in your comparison. Let's go back to these industrial revolutions. So the first, the industrial revolutions brought a lot of innovation. And brought certain progress for people because we have light, you know, we have heating and all that, but it came with a price and it came with a huge price for the world that we actually cannot pay.

So allow me to share another number where we are at. Um, we don't treat the world. As if, you know, it has some boundaries, you know, a lot of talk is around planetary boundaries. And currently, we literally overshoot the use of our planet by almost two planets. And that's indicated by World [00:18:00] Overshoot Day. So today, World Overshoot Day.

So, you know, the day in the year. Where actually the credit of the world is gone because it can't recuperate for more use of resources or more pollution. That's what World Overshoot Day stands for, was on the 2nd of August. Don't have to tell you, there's many days after the 2nd of August in 1970, it was 30th of Decem, December.

That date stands for 1.75 planets that we use currently with no real action. In 2030, that will be two planets and so on. To solve this, we have to go back five days every year till 2050. Then we're back to one planet. So that's a huge challenge. These are consequences that, you know, were directly related to the former industrial revolutions.

So we should learn from that. [00:19:00] You know, we should learn what technology can do. And that it comes with a price. Now, with all that wisdom comes the responsibility, I think, to us, humans, to choose wisely. And that means with this huge toolkit we just described of physical and digital technologies, I think we have the responsibility, the obligation, to choose to apply those with a positive impact for the world and its people.

That's what I mean with technology for good. For good, for me, and how I describe in the book, is measured by these sustainable development goals. Why? Because we made it into 17 concrete targets agreed upon by 193 countries in 2015 with the time ticking until 2030. And what [00:20:00] is so helpful is that those are very concrete goals defined by underlying target and indicators, so it's completely crystal clear what the challenges are.

Now, what do we want? That if we apply technology, that we positively impact those and not negatively impact those. And technology can be our biggest ally in that, especially this wide range of technologies has the ability to fast forward progress. We can even like make up for lost time because we were too slow and too, and too small scale for lost time and has been researched that those technologies impact.

Positively, if we, if we, you know, put our minds to it, 70 percent of these SDGs, so we have gold in our hands, you could say, if we, if we, if we are serious [00:21:00] about creating a better world for us all, then we have gold in our hands with these technologies.

Marco Ciappelli: And the point is that that doesn't mean that companies are not following their goal anymore, but they just reposition.

In a way, their, their vision to say, I'm making money, I'm giving jobs, um, but I'm also doing good for the world. And as you're throwing number there, there is one that really stuck into, into my head when I was reading about your book, where it says 69 of the world's largest economy are Company, not government.

And I think a lot of people from the news, they have the perception of, and it's happening right now in the Middle East, there is the meeting with, with the, all the country of the world. And we expect China, United States, the European community to say, okay, we all come together. We all resolve this.

It seems to me that with the number that you put in the book, it's [00:22:00] more of an economical decision than a political decision, if we really want to do that. It doesn't make sense.

Marga Hoek: Yeah, and, and with, uh, with that economical decision, we can push political decisions. You know, and that's what I missed, for instance, with the COP28 so far.

I mean, there was this letter of 100 CEOs, you know, um, writing a letter of what they expect of COP28 and they want governments to do this, that and the other. And they all are kind of perfect because they are aligned with their own 2050 goals. And then what, you know, as if that is enough, why don't you say we You know, being such a huge economical power potentially for good, are going to raise the bar, so and so, and in such a way, whatever way they propose.

And then governments, we expect you to accelerate this, that, and that. Then [00:23:00] you create a higher point of outcome of this, rather than saying, you know, we'll do the same as we did before, which was good. And now covenants, you have to step up. Then you don't use that economical power.

Marco Ciappelli: Right, right. And what's your perception of what's going on with the public opinion?

Um, I, I always think that there is education in everything we do. I mean, you talk to company, you, you mentor, you write books, they reach a certain audience. Are they reaching the people, the masses that can really put pressure on government and companies to behave in a way that is responsible for the environment?

Is that happening on, on that side, on your opinion or, or not?

Marga Hoek: Well, it's happening anyway, uh, also because of the change of generations. So what we see is that, you know, within, within around [00:24:00] 10 years, millennials and gener, generation Z, as we refer to them, are going to be the, the majority in the marketplace, in the workforce, et cetera.

And it has been research and also to my experience that they have a very different mindset. When it comes to sustainability, we call it like that. So 8 out of 10 people of those generations want to work for what we call a purpose driven organization. They're willing, if able, to pay more for sustainable products than non sustainable products.

And so on and so forth. So there's a big shift in the generation. So the pressure, if you talk about the big public, in that sense is already changing. And you see that happening every day. For instance, a while ago, maybe you remember that it was all over the news in the US, the big layoffs of the big tech firms.

And then young people stood up and said, we don't want this happening like this because we have people [00:25:00] living in war zones. We have people that live on the visa, which is connected to that job. So we want a change in the process. They demanded it. It was all over the media. And of course they achieved.

Maybe not all of that goes, but definitely part of it. We have a whole movement on greater turnbacks and the likes, you know, that just don't accept a lot of the talk and smooth talk that people do, um, between each other, but say, Hey, listen, you know, it's not relevant if you're going to debate whether your bucket should be blue or red, if there's a big fire.

Comparisons like that. So that's going to be a huge driver for change. Also, the economics around renewable energies and new ways of production with these new technologies, for instance, in manufacturing, the price of the innovations is going to lower rapidly. You know, and if not by political decisions, it's going to, you know, [00:26:00] be phased out due to lack of competitive position because these are markets that are phasing out anyway, and the new markets are phasing in regardless of political decision.

Having said that, of course, uh, politics do help. And if we have a proper pricing of CO2, if we have a plan, you know, that holds countries responsible for really living up to Paris, if we are now finally, and it seems like that is one of the Bigger outcomes of COP28 now come up with the capital to help people in the poor countries like Sub Saharan Africa that contribute only 4 percent to the whole problem, but suffer the most.

You know, if we finally finance that and things like that, then that definitely helps. So we need both.

Marco Ciappelli: And we go back to where we started, like technology that is more complex. [00:27:00] But it, it can be rearranged in a way that it turned out to be functional. And I feel like what you just said about politics, the same thing.

Like it's not just the, we have a lot of tools in our arsenal, in our kit. And we just need, I think, the will to do something like that. Now, I want to take the last maybe five minutes of this because I like to touch on a generative AI and AI in general. Of course, it's, it's a big topic nowadays. It's part of technology.

There is a lot of promises, um, a lot of concrete results already from healthcare data management and, and, and a lot of other things. A lot of people are afraid of it. But a lot of people were afraid of prior technology computers taking jobs and all of that So all this said in your context of tech for good How do you place?

Um [00:28:00] everything that has happened in the last year literally artificial intelligence

Marga Hoek: Yeah, well, thanks for asking that and I was the other day I was in london on a ft event on ai And I spent three days listening to everybody there as well. You know, there's a lot of talk about a regenerative AI and data as there would be a lot of talk with every new technology, but it's only one, although foundational technology of this fourth industrial revolution.

It has huge promises and I think it absolutely can live up to that because it can enable us to analyze and gather data. To a much larger scale. Much faster and that's exactly what you need to push solutions forward and it can be combined with all of the other Seven technology groups. So it's a foundational technology.

So can [00:29:00] do huge things. You know, we can, um, literally predict, um, impact on the planet and thus solve it. We can do precision farming, we can improve health. We can do precision operations and so on and so forth. A lot of things fearing technology is not going to do anything for us. Fearing in general as human beings makes us cautious, but how cautious do we need to be?

We cannot be paralyzed by fear or insecurity. As humans, we have to live and cope with the only constant, it's going to be change. We have to be comfortable with new things and have to Get comfortable with innovations and the unknown, because that's what our era is going to look like. And if we fear the first phase, you know, well, you buckle up for the phases after that.

What we also need to realize, and I was talking, um, on the, on the FT [00:30:00] event about regulation and policies. We need a shift in that as well, because these technologies are not to be controlled. That doesn't bring us anything. We have to steer on the outcome of the technologies. Being a shift from doing no harm, you know, we want to protect rightfully so, that technologies do no harm, but we have to focus on doing good, because otherwise we get a lot of rules of regulations that will be too little too late anyway, because our whole system is so slow.

That it's so much slower than the pace of the development of technology. So that in itself has to be changed, but also, um, it then abstracts good solutions to come out in time for planning and people. So it has to be a total new system, totally new processes. Well, it's hardly a [00:31:00] democratic system problem.

We have that we have to solve, and then we have to focus on accelerating solutions that do good. And not, you know, have only one idea around policies and regulations that end up focusing on doing no harm. That I find very important.

Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, we talk a lot in cyber security about inaction is never the solution.

Like, how do I know that? How do I not get to click on a on a nefarious email? Well, I'm done. It's just not gonna get emails. No, you can't do that. You're connecting a stuff that could be the same thing. Yeah. Otherwise, then we're not catching up. And I'm going to have nightmares about. Thinking about that.

We're already consuming more planet. We need to allow. I mean, that really stuck into my head. Um, I would love for you to tell me and, and make it a pitch for your book as [00:32:00] well. But I'm curious, who do you had in mind when you were writing this book and who you wish would read this book? Um, business people see level or is a book for, for everybody else as well.

For To understand where we're standing and maybe make your voice heard with education.

Marga Hoek: Oh, i'm happy to say that with my former book the trillion dollar ship, which was about the opportunities For business with the sustainable development goals, which I just mentioned I had business people in mind. I thought it has to be c suite minus one minus two, you know professionals Right, and then it became a bestseller because it was so accessible Yet, you know, also very comprised and also the university business school people used it.

They used it for their students, all kinds of government people read it. So in the, in the end, it ended up with a much wider audience. And I think the [00:33:00] same applies to Tech for Good. Target audiences are people in the wider business community. But also the tech community, because the business community knows too little about tech, but the tech community knows too little about the for good.

So both have to come together in this book. Um, it has been a three year journey. So I wanted to describe all of these technologies in a very clear way. Because I find, for instance, in boards that many board members are too afraid to ask, what is this technology actually about? Because they're supposed to know.

Nobody knows. So all these technology groups are described in a clear way. I describe the economics, you know, how big are these markets actually? And then most importantly, I describe how these technologies can be applied for good. How can they approve health care? How can they, uh, help agriculture? How can they prevent food waste?

And so on and [00:34:00] so forth in many different sectors. And once I had written the book, you know, that's always for an author, that's a very interesting moment because then all the content has been done. And then you write your foreword for instance, but you rise above your own book, which is interesting. And then you ask yourself fundamental questions like.

Okay, I started out with this book. Has my intention changed throughout the process? What have I learned from it? And what is important? Um, what's an underlying message that actually not directly related to the content, but which is important anyway. And then it struck me to me that I thought this is actually a book of hope because it's.

A constructive approach to what we can actually do with technology describes, for instance, that technology enables us to recreate coral reef that has gone lost, that otherwise would have [00:35:00] cost hundreds of years, and that we're now able to solve with 3D printing, which is amazing. And so many more examples.

And then I thought about the word imagine, because I want people to dare, you know, we talked about fear. I want people to desire things again, and to dare to imagine what we can do instead of what we cannot do. So every chapter starts with the spread, imagine, and then I sketch a world in what technology can do for us and what it looks like and what it actually can, you know, work miracles for us.

Just to take people out of the fear zone, out of the, you know, whatever I do, it won't help zone into imagine what we can do. And at that point, I also made a film about the, about the book, which you can see by a QR code, which is integrated in the book. [00:36:00] And so it's a book of hope, Marco. It's a positive book.

It has 75 real life business cases in it from all over the world. So it has been done and it is being done in a commercially successful way. What you just mentioned yourself as well. It's not doing good and doing worse economically. No, you can synergize the both. You can unlock new markets. You can improve your business case and competitive position by synergizing sustainability and technology in a positive way.

It will take you a long way. And so in the end, I hope still it's again, you know, Like 400 pages book, it looks like this, but it's inspiring a browse through book to have people to maybe, you know, fall in love with technology again, but in a new way.

Marco Ciappelli: Yep. It's a fascinating. I [00:37:00] usually do a little recap of the conversation you just made.

You just did it beautifully. So thank you for doing my job. I feel, I feel like that. I have to say, I do feel like that after most of the time I talk about dystopia, utopia, where are we going? It's up to us. And, uh, and that's what you just said. It really is up to us and it can be done. And it's a lot of utopia.

Yeah, it's, it's, again, there's only that cake, so. Yeah. Think about it. Well, I'm going to thank you very much for this conversation. I really loved it. Anytime you want to come back and we can talk more about other specifics. It is a big conversation anyway. It's a big conversation. It would be wonderful to focus on a more specific angle or a specific group of technology.

So this is an open invitation to come back. And for the listener, I would like for them to check the book, the video. Every link [00:38:00] to connect with you is going to be in the notes. And, uh, of course, to the book as well. So, again, stay tuned for more stories like this. Subscribe, get in touch with Marga, and definitely read the book.

And, Marga, thank you very, very much.

Marga Hoek: It was my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Marco. I really enjoyed it. Me too. [00:39:00]

Redefining Society and Technology Podcast

Book | Tech For Good: Imagine Solving the World’s Greatest Challenges | A conversation with Author Marga Hoek | Redefining Society with Marco Ciappelli

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Episode Transcription

Book | Tech For Good: Imagine Solving the World’s Greatest Challenges | A conversation with Author Marga Hoek | Redefining Society with Marco Ciappelli